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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2001 : 08:31:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
But, if it's Arab, and Muslim, Democracy that you're talking about, then the United Arab Emirates, could point the way to a possible solution.
They have a Voting System, and a some-what Free Press, and while you do have to be a part of the Nobility, to Vote, they do make up almost half of the Population. It compares quite favorably to England, upon the Conclusion of their Civil War, when Parliament, after having seized Power too quickly and Autocratically, went back to Consolidating Power slowly, and more Methodically. It all finally led to the UK, that we so Love, and Cherish! ---ZaphodBeeblebrox
I posted this on another bbs awhile back:
Prohibition of alcohol in Saudi Arabia has most certainly lead to a very profitable underground 'mafia' type $200,000 million a year industry, and as in America in the twenties as possibly allowed the terrorist anti-American movement an uncompromised network of savory characters including foreign expatriates living in Saudi, all involved in numerous profitable illicit activities.
With one bottle of Johnny Walker Black Label selling for a maximum of $200 in Saudi Arabia compromising official government agents is inevitable. Most importantly with a reported 80% of smuggled alcohol arriving from the United Arab Emirates, is it merely a coincidence that several of the WTC terrorists sent money transfers to the UAE, possibly excess funds of the WTC & Pentagon terrorist operation.
CIA spooks and informants definitely need to immerse themselves into the illegal alcohol trade between UAE and Saudi Arabia, the sooner the better. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 09:14:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
You are equating sports with bestiality?
Explain to me why I shouldn't. (Must I again explain that by this question, I am not making a claim that I should?)
quote:
Since the goat fuckers are insane and have said that they consider every man woman and child in America a fair target--and since that includes YOU.
Whoa there! I'm talking about generalized hypotheticals here, not about Islamic terrorists. I thought you were asking about the morality of the act of goat fucking, not the morality of certain people who practice it.
You are telling me more about what you think I think, than answering my questions.
I keep saying, don't make judgements about my morals simply because I'm asking questions. The act of questioning the morality of an act doesn't mean I think the act is perfectly acceptable. Think of me as the moderator of a debate. I'm simply asking questions to see how people respond to them.
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
Edited by - tokyodreamer on 10/20/2001 09:52:13 |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 09:19:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Wow…the term “absolute” did not appear in my previous post.
Isn't the opposite of "relative" "absolute"?
As in "attacking moral relativism" implies that he is arguing for moral absolutism.
Anyway, this thread is getting way too confusing, as there are about four different angles that people are coming from, and misunderstanding seem rampant...
Have fun! 
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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lpetrich
Skeptic Friend
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 09:35:37 [Permalink]
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As to sex with boys, there is a hint of that in the Koran, where good Muslim men will get, along with a harem of pretty ladies, some very cute boys to be their servants.
URL: http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/heaven.html
And they won't just be serving miraculous, non-intoxicating wine. What else might be seen from this poem from 'Perfumed Garden' by Abu Nuwas:
O the joy of sodomy!
So now be sodomites, you Arabs.
Turn not away from it -- therein is wondrous pleasure.
Take some coy lad with kiss-curls twisting on his temple and ride as he stands like some gazelle standing to her mate.
A lad whom all can see girt with sword and belt not like your whore who has to go veiled.
Make for smooth-faced boys and do your very best to mount them, for women are the mounts of the devils
The implication here is that boys are much more available than women, and much less troublesome as sex partners.
This had persisted for several centuries, until recent decades. For example, when the French conquered Cairo, that city's inhabitants were shocked that their conquerors had brought in lots of female prostitutes -- boys were considered preferable.
Edited by - lpetrich on 10/20/2001 09:36:26 |
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 14:58:07 [Permalink]
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i find myself in the odd position of being in almost complete agreement with slater on this one. child molestation is always immoral in my book.
the other lovely mysoginist custom popular in many islamic states is female circumcision, removal if the clitoris and labia in girls. as i understand about 93% of women in egypt have been mutilated in this way, and the custom is very popular in the arab portion of somolia. its very difficult to find much redeeming about islam as it is actually practiced in nations with an islamic majority.
like atomic, i also have friends and loved ones who are moslem and are wondeful people. my foster daughter is turkish, and a finer human being you will never find. turkey is rather anamolous since the military is committed to a secular state. for all of its own abuses, turkey is so far ahead of any other of the islamic states in the idea of personal freedom, womens rights and modern ideals. but they are where they are in spite of the religion rather than because of it.
comrade billyboy |
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marvin
Skeptic Friend
77 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 15:04:03 [Permalink]
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Relativism (Doctrine and Tradition in epistemology and ethics) — Relativism holds that truth and value are relative to an observer or group of observers. One example of this doctrine is "cultural relativism", which claims that different cultures have different but perfectly legitimate and equally valid standards of truth and value. Relativism is often just another word for subjectivism. Popularly, relativism is usually contrasted with some form of ethical objectivism, while subjectivism has connotations of a sort of spoiled-brat individualism and, in the extreme, of solipsism.
“Isn't the opposite of "relative" "absolute"?
As in "attacking moral relativism" implies that he is arguing for moral absolutism.” ---Tokyodreamer
Actually moral relativism in its purest sense basically says that all ethics are equal. To refute relativism does not mean that you need to ‘throw it all away' you can keep some of the general ideas and consequentialism would be a good start. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 16:37:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
the other lovely mysoginist custom popular in many islamic states is female circumcision, removal if the clitoris and labia in girls. as i understand about 93% of women in egypt have been mutilated in this way, and the custom is very popular in the arab portion of somolia. its very difficult to find much redeeming about islam as it is actually practiced in nations with an islamic majority.
This is somewhere in africa - they also sew the vagina closed - to ensure she remains faithful. (I'm not sure this is a result of being muslim - at least I understand it that way - wish I could remember more from the lecture I attended on this.)
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying." ~Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. |
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 17:33:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually moral relativism in its purest sense basically says that all ethics are equal.
Then I don't believe in moral relativism. Thanks for the clarification!
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2001 : 17:34:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
i find myself in the odd position of being in almost complete agreement with slater on this one. child molestation is always immoral in my book.
Is anyone here saying otherwise?!
If it seems so, then things have gotten more confused than I thought...
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 10:54:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
If the US started supporting democracy in the region there would be fewer and fewer people to draw from. Eventually they would even seem like terrorists to the general population rather than heroes. But now they are viewed as heroes because of the hate generated from years of poor US foreign policy choices.
I suppose what you are saying would make sense if the Al Qaeda and similar groups were upset about a lack of democracy in the Islamic world, but AFAIK they are upset about the lack of more theocratic "Talibanesque" regimes. Our introducing more Western values into the region would just serve to further piss them off.
p.s. I don't see anything wrong w/ fvcking pre-pubescent goats (or either gender) as long as they are not coerced or harmed in the process.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 11:46:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Cleaning up US policies won't eliminate terrorists but it will significantly reduce the number of people supporting them and reduce the number of people willing to become martyrs. Failure to do this means we will fail to stop terrorism and we will see more and more Americans die.
In some cases "cleaning up US policies" equates to giving the terrorists exactly what they want. If the U.S. acts to support the Palestinian state or pulls troops or diplomatic ties in the region, they are sending the message loud and clear to potential terrorists everywhere, "WANT U.S. SUPPORT? MURDER AMERICANS!"
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 14:26:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
p.s. I don't see anything wrong w/ fvcking pre-pubescent goats (or either gender) as long as they are not coerced or harmed in the process.
I'm sorry, but how does this goat give consent? I'm getting images of little heart-shaped barn stalls here.
Lisa
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 14:30:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm sorry, but how does this goat give consent? I'm getting images of little heart-shaped barn stalls here.
Aw, come on! Everyone know "baa" means "yes"! 
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And if rain brings winds of change
let it rain on us forever.
I have no doubt from what I've seen
that I have never wanted more.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 16:23:04 [Permalink]
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Okay, back onto a serious note. Think waaay back to page one of this topic.
Is this guy trying to say Timmy blew up a federal building because he couldn't get laid?
Lisa
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend
USA
188 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2001 : 18:20:14 [Permalink]
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no he did it because as a child he served as some older man's, you should pardon the expression, butt boy.
although child abuse may be socially acceptable in some societies, it is neither the excuse for nor the cause of terrorism.
excess religious or ideological zeal is the fuel of terrorism. true believers are dangerous. they know they are right and god wants them to make you believe too.
comrade billyboy |
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