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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2005 :  10:58:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4708459.stm

New article about "Reinforcement", one of the mechinisms of speciation.

quote:
Now, researchers studying a family of butterflies think they have witnessed a subtle process, which could be forcing a wedge between newly formed species.


The team, from Harvard University, US, discovered that closely related species living in the same geographical space displayed unusually distinct wing markings.

These wing colours apparently evolved as a sort of "team strip", allowing butterflies to easily identify the species of a potential mate.



"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2005 :  13:19:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Just for the records: I never got a reply to my reply (does that even make sense?). However, I was glad to see someone else actually support me (indirectly), so all hope is not lost.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9665 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  05:10:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

Just for the records: I never got a reply to my reply (does that even make sense?). However, I was glad to see someone else actually support me (indirectly), so all hope is not lost.

That's good to hear, I was actually wondering whatever happened to the discussion.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  06:34:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
The guy who 'supported' me backed with the nifty argument (when the creationist guy argued that the Bible was so accurate even though it was written in several timeframes by several people): maybe because the church cherry-picked what to put in it?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend

313 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  07:47:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send woolytoad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

The guy who 'supported' me backed with the nifty argument (when the creationist guy argued that the Bible was so accurate even though it was written in several timeframes by several people): maybe because the church cherry-picked what to put in it?



I'm not sure what you mean by "accurate", but I think what the creationist guy means to say is that the Bible, has remained quite a consistent document over it's life span. That is, there are few changes between one version and another, even if they are separated by many many years. It's even more remarkable when you consider that humans had to write by hand, the first copies.

None of this means anything of course and it neither supports nor contradicts either side of the argument.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  08:20:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad

quote:
Originally posted by Siberia

The guy who 'supported' me backed with the nifty argument (when the creationist guy argued that the Bible was so accurate even though it was written in several timeframes by several people): maybe because the church cherry-picked what to put in it?



I'm not sure what you mean by "accurate", but I think what the creationist guy means to say is that the Bible, has remained quite a consistent document over it's life span. That is, there are few changes between one version and another, even if they are separated by many many years. It's even more remarkable when you consider that humans had to write by hand, the first copies.

None of this means anything of course and it neither supports nor contradicts either side of the argument.


No, he meant consistent with real world events. Such as, accurate descriptions of locations, historical facts, the world in general.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  08:37:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "accurate", but I think what the creationist guy means to say is that the Bible, has remained quite a consistent document over it's life span.


The argument goes something like this:

1. Many people who didn't know each other wrote the Bible
2. These people never contradicted themselves
3. Therefore, something must have connected them
4. That something is God

But of course, there are arguably contradictions, depending on how literally the Bible is taken. And the church did cherry pick what things to put in, but this is often said to be because the others were just false prophets.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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