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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2005 :  15:06:39  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
A giant blip on the radar has occurred in the land of Aus.

Dave W. was right. It was only a matter of time:

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/intelligent-design-an-option-nelson/2005/08/10/1123353386917.html

Let the hackles rise.



Edited for spelling.

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan

Edited by - Dry_vby on 08/11/2005 16:05:15

moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1880 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2005 :  16:16:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
He told the National Press Club in Canberra yesterday that he would oppose replacing evolution with ID in Australia's science classes but said parents should be able to choose that their children learn about it.

The those parents should teach it at home or issist that it be taught in their churches, perhaps Sunday school.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  10:05:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by moakley

quote:
He told the National Press Club in Canberra yesterday that he would oppose replacing evolution with ID in Australia's science classes but said parents should be able to choose that their children learn about it.

The those parents should teach it at home or issist that it be taught in their churches, perhaps Sunday school.



I got a question. How exactly would you teach ID? I mean, I would imagine the teacher would first say, "ID is a theory which says that life on this earth had to be designed by something intelligent. It could not have arose through natural processes."

But then what? Is there really anything else that you could teach? It seems that the only thing that ID'ers agree on is the fact that we were designed. They don't agree on who did it, when they did it, where they did it, how they did it...

So how the hell could you make a lesson plan for ID?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 08/11/2005 10:06:23
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  10:20:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
I got a question. How exactly would you teach ID? I mean, I would imagine the teacher would first say, "ID is a theory which says that life on this earth had to be designed by something intelligent. It could not have arose through natural processes."

But then what? Is there really anything else that you could teach? It seems that the only thing that ID'ers agree on is the fact that we were designed. They don't agree on who did it, when they did it, where they did it, how they did it...

So how the hell could you make a lesson plan for ID?
This is what I always wonder about! Since part of the ID "theory" says that it is impossible to know who or what the designer is or was, there's little else to say about ID other than it is. For instance, can the IDers tell us how this designer went about designing? Does the designer pop down to earth every few thousand year, tweak some animals' DNA using sophisticated technologies, and then zoom off? If you're going to have this sort of theory, then questions like how a designer designs, when a designer impliments her or his or its plans, and so on, are all important. But ID and IDers claim that such questions cannot be answered with ID. So really, it's almost useless!
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1880 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  12:01:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
Probably not so much teaching of ID rather the teaching "The Critical Analysis of Evolution".

http://www.evolutionnews.org/index.php?p=339&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

A lesson plan create by high school teacher and PhD candidate Bryan Leonard. But it appears that his ID-based ?critical analysis? approach to teaching evolution in public schools dissertation defense has been put on hold. The result of having an assistent professor of French & Italian replace by the Dean of the Colleges of Biological Sciences on his dissertation committee. Poor Bryan. More details on this over at PT: http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001127.html

Like you guys have already said, Not much to teach about ID.

I've never read "Of Pandas and People" but wasn't that book being considered as a supplement for teaching evolution? someplace? sometime in the last 15 years?

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  12:31:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by moakley

Probably not so much teaching of ID rather the teaching "The Critical Analysis of Evolution".

http://www.evolutionnews.org/index.php?p=339&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

A lesson plan create by high school teacher and PhD candidate Bryan Leonard. But it appears that his ID-based ?critical analysis? approach to teaching evolution in public schools dissertation defense has been put on hold. The result of having an assistent professor of French & Italian replace by the Dean of the Colleges of Biological Sciences on his dissertation committee. Poor Bryan. More details on this over at PT: http://www.pandasthumb.org/pt-archives/001127.html

Like you guys have already said, Not much to teach about ID.
Right, moak. I just went over to the Discovery Institute site looking for something-- anything-- that might help me in teaching ID (were I so inclined). But all I found were articles, books, and links critiquing evolution. Honestly, it simply isn't clear to me that, if one wanted to, a semester-long course in ID could be taught. If the bulk of the data "supporting" a theory is simply the critique of rival one, one should be wary.
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  16:04:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
In the Downunderverse we pretty much excepted in schools a long time ago that Evolution was the thing to teach, and there hasn't been any kind of unease about that at all.

Now, we have a bunch of people (?) who tell us that Evolution should not stand alone and should at least have some opposition.

How they propose to mount that opposition is beyond me, but at the very least they are making themselves heard.

Surely, having the two ideas presented as a dichotemy isn't going to cause to much dysfunction in our way of life.

Someone with a proclivity towards this sought of thing might latch onto it as a safety device, but on the whole, in my experience, most people don't let it affect their day to day decision making.

Maybe it's just the people I hang with.

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  16:41:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
quote:
Honestly, it simply isn't clear to me that, if one wanted to, a semester-long course in ID could be taught. If the bulk of the data "supporting" a theory is simply the critique of rival one, one should be wary.

ID course curriculum, semester 1:
Week 1: The irreducible complexity of flagella.
Week 2: The irreducible complexity of the human eye.
Week 3: The irreducible complexity of the Krebs cycle.
Week 4: The irreducible complexity of ...
zzzzzzzzzzzzz (Abe Simpson)

What an interesting course.


METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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skepticality
Skeptic Friend

USA
105 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  18:27:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit skepticality's Homepage Send skepticality a Private Message
Damn! Why does the US have to export EVERYTHING!

Derek Colanduno
host - skepticality
http://www.skepticality.com/
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25971 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2005 :  19:09:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby

Dave W. was right.
There are times when being correct really sucks, and this is one of those times. Sorry to hear your countries kids have been targeted for ignorance.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2005 :  15:07:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
I read this in the "New Republic" dated August 12 2005, this morning.

Not Australian, but interesting:

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050822&s=diarist082205

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
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