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 tobacco - friend or foe?
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Doomar
SFN Regular

USA
714 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2005 :  21:10:01  Show Profile  Visit Doomar's Homepage Send Doomar a Private Message
I have a friend named Mike Sawyer who strongly opposes tobacco and smoking in whatever way he can, while supporting good health. His own father died while he was a boy from emphasema. Mike has helped me delve more into the understanding of tobacco and smoking and how it affects our health. http://www.iwillneverusetobacco.com/
Today in many cities we see city governments placing smoking bans in all public places. Do you believe smoking in public building should be treated as a public health hazard or a personal right and why?

Mark 10:27 (NKJV) 27But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”

www.pastorsb.com.htm

Edited by - Doomar on 09/04/2005 21:12:05

Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2005 :  21:12:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
Pacively killing people is not a right or a privelidge.

http://www.health24.com/news/Smoking/1-1250,27191.asp



Edited to add link

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
Edited by - Dry_vby on 09/05/2005 22:26:54
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2005 :  22:01:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
If areas in the public building are specifically designated smoking areas and measures are taken to prevent smoke from escaping into non-smoking areas, then I don't mind people smoking.

If they stink of nicotine and smoke coming from that said place, I tell them so and try to stay away from them. Some women at work stink like perfume factories when they arrive in the morning, and I object to that too. Asthmatic people shouldn't have to suffer life-threatening attacks because of ignorance of others.

(edit: spelling)

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/05/2005 22:03:04
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend

313 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2005 :  00:11:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send woolytoad a Private Message
Haven't we had this discussion before?
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2005 :  11:36:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Haven't we had this discussion before?

Yes, less than 2 months ago, actually.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 09/06/2005 11:37:51
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CourseKnot
Skeptic Friend

USA
82 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2005 :  19:21:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send CourseKnot a Private Message
Smoking can kill you and possibly contribute to the death of those exposed to your bad habit/addiction. Keep it away from me please. I am an ex smoker and hope I don't die from my foolishness. I also knew someone who died from smoking related illness.

Just flying through space with the rest of you...
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 09/06/2005 :  19:30:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
Hi, Course.

You ain't related to Freyed, by any chance, are you?

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  01:06:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
And perhaps I should mention that in the conversation we had 2 months ago on this topic, it was convincingly demonstrated that the evidence showing the dangers of second-hand smoke are sorely flawed.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 09/07/2005 01:06:27
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  05:39:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Flawed or not.

Smoking do cause a serious threat to people with asthma. Not enough?

Most of us might get by with coughs, running eyes and getting our hair and clothes stinking, but I can't come up with a reason why these self centered bastards should be allowed to expose us to that.

I don't throw my feces at other people, why should these creeps be allowed to expose me to their waste?



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CourseKnot
Skeptic Friend

USA
82 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  09:03:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send CourseKnot a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dry_vby

Hi, Course.

You ain't related to Freyed, by any chance, are you?



Not as far as I know.

Just flying through space with the rest of you...
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  10:19:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
it was convincingly demonstrated that the evidence showing the dangers of second-hand smoke are sorely flawed.


The one study done on the matter, that anti-smokers like to fling around, has some problems.

Personally I think smoking should come with some caveats with regard to health insurance.

If you choose to smoke, you should pay tripple(or more) the normal premium for somebody in your age bracket.

It may be wrong for us to tell people that they cannot smoke, but it is not wrong for us to expect them to be responsible for the well known consequences of their actions.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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ooh_child
New Member

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  11:34:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ooh_child a Private Message
While I can understand the mindset behind requiring smokers to pay higher health insurance premiums, I must ask where does one draw the line regarding legal activities? Would it be okay to charge higher premiums to overeaters, sunbathers, or drinkers? There are plenty of people who engage in legal, but dangerous, recreational activities-should they be required to pay higher healthcare premiums?
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  11:55:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Would it be okay to charge higher premiums to overeaters, sunbathers, or drinkers?

I believe this is already being done. If you are in a high risk group, legal activity or not, you will pay higher premiums.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  12:45:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
While I can understand the mindset behind requiring smokers to pay higher health insurance premiums, I must ask where does one draw the line regarding legal activities? Would it be okay to charge higher premiums to overeaters, sunbathers, or drinkers? There are plenty of people who engage in legal, but dangerous, recreational activities-should they be required to pay higher healthcare premiums?


Short answer: Yes.

As long as the risk assessment is based on solid evidence.

There is no question that smoking causes major health problems.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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ooh_child
New Member

USA
30 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  14:37:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ooh_child a Private Message
Furshur, I admit that my healthcare coverage is provided by my employer, so I don't know if insurance companies ask these questions of insured individuals. I know that my coverage is not higher because I smoke or drink. They haven't even asked if I sunbathe!

Dude, thanks for the short answer. And I agree that smoking often causes health problems, I just don't agree that it always does. I don't see how guidelines such as you are suggesting could possibly be used in a fair way, here in the US.
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2005 :  15:14:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

And perhaps I should mention that in the conversation we had 2 months ago on this topic, it was convincingly demonstrated that the evidence showing the dangers of second-hand smoke are sorely flawed.



Oh, so you'd let me blow smoke in your face, would you?

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
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