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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2006 : 13:28:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
One interesting point is that despite his infomercial's promises, Trudeau's supposed cures are NOT available in his book! Trudeau's marks readers are instead always referred to his Web site. There, they soon find that the details of these wondrous cures are only available if you pay to subscribe to the site. So you pays your money so's you can pays your money again, and only then can you get the quack cures. Nice guy, eh?
The guy has been barred from publishing his "cures" in book form.
So his books now just tell people about his "cures", like telling you that cancer can be cured by "changing the pH of your body".
But you have to subscribe to his offshore website to get him to actually tell you what the "cure" is.
He is a lying piece of crap, to say the least.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 15:58:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
> I wasn't trying to disagree with anything you wrote, Snake,
Ok. Thank you. And the following is not directed towards you either.
> The idea of such altruism, as expressed culturally in laws
> intended to protect the vulnerable, doesn't exactly contradict
> Darwin.
The vulnerable can be eliminate.
> It certainly looks like he uses his book to attempt to get around
> the FTC consent decree his is supposedly bound by.
Well, Duh! LOL. That's what I said, a crook will always try.
> His method appears to be to run infomercials for his book, then
> after you pay for the book, the book is revealed to essentially
> just be advertising for his Web page.
Just like any other advertising for any other product. In that, we are always bombarded by people trying to get our money and attention. There's no end to it. After fast food restaurants get you to come in, they lure you back with toys, that are connected to movies. Other products offer rebates, discounts. I see no difference. A lot of stuff that is legal is not good for us either, people have to make their own choice if the want to continue to buy it. Personally I don't eat MacDonalds but I like the toys. (anyone want to buy old Star Wars figures)
> On his Web page (once you pay again) you can reportedly get access
> to emailing Trudeau himself, and who knows what you may have to pay
> to buy what, after contacting him?
People still at that point are not being harmed by any medical treatment or lack there of. They are sending in money. If they keep doing that after finding in the book that they have to do that.......then I don't feel sorry for them. It's the same thing people who buy lottery tickets or send in the Publisher Sweepstakes do. They go on when odds are against them. Can we make laws against, stupid?
> I'm almost certain that many people have died, are dying, and will
> die because they stopped taking their insulin, chemotherapy,
> antipsychotics, etc., on Trudeau's authority.
If they've consulted with their doctor, that's their choice. I mean if they are taking insulin in the 1st place, they know enough to go to a doctor. One would think they also know enough to talk to him about what they are doing. For the few who don't discuss it with their doctor or don't want to, that's their choice.
> People may very likely be going crazy right now, and attacking
> others,
Going crazy, attacking others? Huh?
> Stronger laws, so long as they don't actually trample free speech,
> seem to me a sensible a way to stem the menacing plague of quackery
> that this guy represents.
Not stronger laws. Stronger education. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 16:08:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Those hurt ....... should sue.
It seems to me that he is wide open for so many civil suits that he could be caught up in court for a very long time in an attempt to defend his lies.
My hope is that people will start suing. That is the way to bring him down…
Yes. Just like with the tobacco companies, eventuly he can't keep what's going on a 'secrete' or settle without going to court or hide the dissatisfaction of 'customers', er, I mean chumps. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 18:31:44 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: quote:
Going crazy, attacking others? Huh?
Sorry, the way I threw that in, out of proper context, it made little sense. I meant it to refer to those people I mentioned in an earlier paragraph, who may have stopped taking their psychiatric meds on Trudeau's advice.
Let's agree to disagree about whether laws can or should protect people, okay? I doubt we'd change either of our our opinions on that political score, and probably we would do more to create heat than to shed light. Whoever your candidate is, I'll vote for the other fellow. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 21:48:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Ronny, I still have that show on tape. Want to show my brother but have a feeling he'll only make excuses for the guy.
If you are in the Los Angeles area I could come over and show it to you.
On a related post where Kil mentioned having a booth to tell people how the 'cures' don't work. Like my brother, they will IMO not want to believe. They've got their minds made up or they so NEED to have that faith that nothing will change their minds. Maybe only a small number of people who were probably somewhat skeptcal anyway. Because otherwise why would people go to those places or buy that nonsense in the 1st place?
They probably didn't have enough science education in early years to know better, because the schools waste money on other stuff.
I think if explaining the nature of a situation is to be of any use to a person, they have to either be underinformed or lacking reasoning skills. In either case, advising them of the facts surrounding circumstances can quickly enable their more effectively dealing with them. However, instances involving faulty judgment... probably due to emotional factors... are harder to remedy. In other words, your brother sounds plenty smart enough and likely has a more-than-adequate knowledge base to assess these matters, as well. So, it sounds as though he has reasons for insisting upon believing in Trudeau. What they might be, and what it would take to convince him otherwise (if that's possible) is anyone's guess.
I live in Bakersfield. I go to LA on occassion as I like to wander the Venice/Malibu Beach area. As for most of the rest of the place, I can live without it.
I agree with HalfMooner about government taking a role in regulating guys like Trudeau. These matters involve a question of legality vs. ethics. People can do all kinds of things within the strict boundaries of the law which range from exploitive, to highly destructive, to (ultimately) lethal. Exactly "what" and "to whom" depends upon the resources and reference frame one has to work from, of course. Conversely, there are acts that are "illegal" which one would be very hard-pressed to explain the harm of. Trudeau may or may not be "legal" in the technical senses of the word, but I have little doubt he's an unethical and harmful person. Hence, I'd hope he'd be shut down. |
Ron White |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2006 : 23:39:48 [Permalink]
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ronnywhite wrote: quote:
So, it sounds as though he has reasons for insisting upon believing in Trudeau. What they might be, and what it would take to convince him otherwise (if that's possible) is anyone's guess.
I kind suspect that there may be no reason at all, except for Kevin Trudeau's apparently massive charisma. Hell, I even know a Lesbian who said she was strongly impressed with his good looks and charm, and she's someone who doesn't believe a word he says.
I'm reminded of a story about a firmly anti-Nazi German, a member of the Social Democratic Party who, out of curiosity, attended one of Hitler's pre-war mass rallies in Nuremberg. He later said that the mass psychology of the event was so irresistibly powerful, he had actually been impelled to shout, "Sieg heil! and do the Fascist salute in unison with the Nazis. I'm certainly not saying Trudeau is a Nazi, but like Hitler, he uses charisma and psychological tricks to influence people who should know better. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/22/2006 23:41:02 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 00:09:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
I live in Bakersfield.
Ronny, baby...Bakersfield, huh! You have a bike, huh? Let's forget about that other crap...we'll talk about quacks later.
I love to ride |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 03:29:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
...You have a bike, huh?...
Nah, after gritting my teeth and thinking as positive as I could failed to ward off a truck running a stop sign, it finally occured to me that if I wanted to remain alive more than a few more years, staying off motorcycles would dramatically increase my chances. I don't get near them anymore, and I'd strongly advise the same to others. Especially in major cities.
Halfmooner- I know what you mean RE Hitler etc. I suppose it depends upon the kind of people their particular show is directed at... Trudeau reminds me of Tony Robbins- just a different flavor of the same kind of malarkey, except the harm is more pronounced and easy to recognize. That's not to say the nonsense of Robbins (nor his predictable clones, given the financial success he enjoys) is necessarily benign, either... Robbins spews bunk as well- and similarly has grown wealthy from doing so... primarily off the sweat of many financially struggling people who could ill afford to spend their badly needed cash on such frivolous nonsense. I think we're all succeptible to such by nature, to differing degrees and in varying ways. Whereas I personally find Robbins and Trudeau nauseatingly pretentious and the boloney they rattle equally ridiculous... and speeches by Hitler to seem manic, deranged, and more frightening than inspiring (of course, that was a different place, culture, and time)... I thought President Reagan was just the best. That guy had charisma and style that blew those all of those amateur chumps out of the water, and like or hate his policies... Reagan was a good man. Ya couldn't help but like the guy.
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
...So his books now just tell people about his "cures", like telling you...
What an asshole. Well, in the US laws are little more than minor annoyances to the consumate con artist Where there's a buck, rest assured- there's a way. |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 01/23/2006 04:33:35 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 12:41:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Trudeau reminds me of Tony Robbins . . .
MADtv (along with The Simpsons, one of several entertainment programs that bizarrely contradict the spirit of the Fox network's "Fair and Balanced" right-wing propaganda "news" policy) has done at least two skits making fun of Tony Robbins' infomercials, to hilarious effect. My favorite is "Dentist in a Box," hawking a product that lets customers do their own oral surgery.
Robbin's photo is featured next to the definition of "smarmy bastard" in Webster's.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/23/2006 12:42:37 |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 14:10:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Snake wrote: quote:
Going crazy, attacking others? Huh?
Sorry, the way I threw that in, out of proper context, it made little sense. I meant it to refer to those people I mentioned in an earlier paragraph, who may have stopped taking their psychiatric meds on Trudeau's advice.
That's what I thought but one can't assume. LOL, not when people on sites like this, pick apart every word one says as if they were some fussy English professor.
quote:
Let's agree to disagree about whether laws can or should protect people, okay? I doubt we'd change either of our our opinions on that political score, and probably we would do more to create heat than to shed light. Whoever your candidate is, I'll vote for the other fellow.
Certainly, there's nothing wrong with being disagreeable. Although offering more debate is ok too.
Too bad you have that attitude, that's like voting for party lines rather than issues, but we each have that vote to do with as we choose. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 14:35:01 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: quote:
That's what I thought but one can't assume. LOL, not when people on sites like this, pick apart every word one says as if they were some fussy English professor.
Indeed, one could not pick a more critical place to post than a skeptic site. And I did make that "going crazy" remark dangerously remote from its context.quote:
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 14:39:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Snake
...You have a bike, huh?...
Nah, after gritting my teeth and thinking as positive as I could failed to ward off a truck running a stop sign, it finally occured to me that if I wanted to remain alive more than a few more years, staying off motorcycles would dramatically increase my chances. I don't get near them anymore, and I'd strongly advise the same to others. Especially in major cities.
Ah, too bad. You'd let a little thing like that stop you.
Although to be really serious, my good buddy and former boyfriend lost his arm in a motorcycle accident, will never ride again and not by choice. Bummer!
You are going to have to move from San Bardo though, I think it's against the law not to have a bike there.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
...So his books now just tell people about his "cures", like telling you...
What an asshole. Well, in the US laws are little more than minor annoyances to the consumate con artist Where there's a buck, rest assured- there's a way.
Sure there are not nice people who take advantage of the law but you have to think past that before making more laws 'just for them'. Good people can be affected by the same laws.
Speaking of Nazis, and that ACLU thing about their right to march. Some wanted to block them but I say Nazis, KKK, who ever, let them speak for two reasons, better to see where they are and when their rights are taken, SO are those on the 'other side'.
That's right.....'Where there's a buck' but that buck is there for others too. Green tea is marketed now, and there's wheat brand, oat meal and hundreds of other products... if you eat them you'll be healthy. Who's to say that people who buy those things from well known food companies aren't going to go doctors because they think they are eating good food. Too much of certain vitamins can be harmful and most vitamins are a rip off anyway but companies are allowed to sell them! Would laws for scam artists not cover things like that too?
---BTW, the above was in reply to Moons' post also. |
| Edited by - Snake on 01/23/2006 14:43:09 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 15:12:44 [Permalink]
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Snake wrote: quote:
That's what I thought but one can't assume. LOL, not when people on sites like this, pick apart every word one says as if they were some fussy English professor.
Indeed, one could not pick a more critical place to post than a skeptic site. And I did make that "going crazy" remark dangerously remote from its context.quote:
Certainly, there's nothing wrong with being disagreeable. Although offering more debate is ok too.
Too bad you have that attitude, that's like voting for party lines rather than issues, but we each have that vote to do with as we choose.
I agree there's nothing wrong with being disagreeable. But on that one point, I just thought my further expressed disagreement would be a waste of time, and that the original topic of your thread was very important.
I'd already gone off on a tangent from the Trudeau topic with my "new law" proposal. I didn't personally want to further my error by arguing political philosophy here. Others are free to do so, of course.
Aside from you to injected something close to Social Darwinism (suggesting the self-elimination of the stupid) into the question of laws protecting the gullible, I respect the Libertarian-style position you took. I also suspect the "Social Darwinism" part was more to provoke a reaction than being your philosophical position. I admit, of coure, I don't really know how you think. I'm not completely immune from the lure aspects of Social Darwinism, myself.
My smartass crack, "Whoever your candidate is, I'll vote for the other fellow" was not honest. I meant to show that I was keeping my own opinion. My candidate (assuming a Presidential one) may very well be the same as yours, so long a he/she is an outstanding leader, tells the truth, obeys the laws, and upholds and defends the spirit and letter of the Constitution, while going after terrorists effectively and intelligently. What a different kind of President that would be!
But that's Off-Topic, what? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 21:29:59 [Permalink]
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[quote]Originally posted by HalfMooner>
> I agree there's nothing wrong with being disagreeable. But on that
> one point, I just thought my further expressed disagreement would
> be a waste of time, and that the original topic of your thread was
> very important.
Thanks for reminding me. I talked to my brother, he is open to watching the tape was surprised at the allegation againts Trudeau so I have a chance to discuss it with him. I really think it's his girl friend who's not open minded.
> I'd already gone off on a tangent from the Trudeau topic with
> my "new law" proposal.
I think that's related.
> Aside from you to injected something close to Social Darwinism
>(suggesting the self-elimination of the stupid) into the question of
> laws protecting the gullible, I respect the Libertarian-style
> position you took. I also suspect the "Social Darwinism" part was
> more to provoke a reaction than being your philosophical position.
> I admit, of coure, I don't really know how you think. I'm not
> completely immune from the lure aspects of Social Darwinism, myself.
I don't know anything about Social Darwinism! While the Darwin Awards are terribly humorous, I'd like to think they are about real people too. Based on that, the point is that those people shouldn't procreate. I do believe there are many who shouldn't have children nor be on this Earth themselves.
(My views on who should be eliminated have noting to do with the Libertarian Party POV)
> My smartass crack, "Whoever your candidate is, I'll vote for the
> other fellow" was not honest. I meant to show that I was keeping my
> own opinion.
Ok, as with email, sometimes expressions aren't understood clearly from one end or the other. Sorry.
> My candidate (assuming a Presidential one) may very well be the
> same as yours, so long a he/she is an outstanding leader, tells the
> truth, obeys the laws, and upholds and defends the spirit and
> letter of the Constitution, while going after terrorists
> effectively and intelligently. What a different kind of President
> that would be!
Well, sounds like we have a Libertarian in the making. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2006 : 22:30:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
(My views on who should be eliminated have noting to do with the Libertarian Party POV)
Okay, thanks for the disclaimer. Then then the Libertarians have their own official Party "list"? ; )
The Darwin Awards are a hoot! I admit I probably feel as much of a sense of what the Germans call Schadenfreude when I read that stuff as does the next person. Indeed, probably some people should not breed, but our private opinions about this don't have to prevent us from supporting some degree of laws to protect even the hilariously stupid, at least in my mind.
"Social Darwinism" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Darwinism) is a collection of social theories which tend to twist Darwinian biological evolution of species into broad social and political conclusions, and has been used by some to justify racism and imperialism. The Nazis are one extreme example. In my remark, I was referring to the less malignant form of Social Darwinism, the casual sort many of us engage in when laughing at some idiot who kills himself doing something incredibly stupid.
quote:
Thanks for reminding me. I talked to my brother, he is open to watching the tape was surprised at the allegation againts Trudeau so I have a chance to discuss it with him. I really think it's his girl friend who's not open minded.
Great! Not that it will forever prevent your brother from worshipping at the feet of other fakers, but it's nice to know you can still get through to him about Trudeau. My brother is kind of like yours, by the way, credulous though intelligent, yet open-minded.
quote:
Well, sounds like we have a Libertarian in the making.
I think of myself as one already, when it doesn't conflict with common sense. ; )
quote:
Ok, as with email, sometimes expressions aren't understood clearly from one end or the other. Sorry.
Thanks, but when I express myself badly, nobody owes me an apology for not understanding me. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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