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 McCarthy was right? Communist threat lives?
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2005 :  12:49:36  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
http://www.parida.com/state.htm

This commentary was posted Sunday, October 9 (2005, not 50 years prior) by Pierre Rinfret, former economic advisor to the Johnson and Nixon administrations... at age 81, Dr. Rinfret's intellect is still keen and his mind still sharp- his analyses on economics and finance are interesting. Yet his views on the political state of the world today are perhaps a little "suspect" in my opinion. Or perhaps a lifetime of fluorinated water has left the "Right" side of my brain impaired, and a call to Homeland Security about that liberal literature I've seen lying around is overdue. The list of 50 confirmed communists in government at the end is, well, uh, idunno. Judge for yourself.

Ron White

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2005 :  15:48:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
The list is ancient. Solomon Adler, the second name on the list, died in 1994 in China after having moved there in the 1950s. It seems that the list is created from "Verona decrypts" from the 1940s, and so most on the list are probably dead and it's unlikely to be a good historical basis for claiming anything about the state of the State Department today. The whole article, with its superfluous capitalization, reeks of hysteria.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2005 :  20:08:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
Yea, I know. This could have found a home in "Humor" or even "Conspiracy Theories" from today's perspective. His commentaries on markets and such are good, but the politics I tend to ignore... they appear to have been "embedded" in the 50's.

Ron White
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/15/2005 :  11:55:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Communism might be on the wane, but McCarthyism is alive and well in the form of the stalking pervert, Bill O'Reilly.
quote:
I was reading an old transcript of a piece about Joe McCarthy's anti-communist witchunt hearings and I was surprised to find that some of his comments sounded awfully familiar. I did a little googling, and I think I figured out why:

MCCARTHY: A few days ago I read that President Eisenhower expressed the hope that by election time in 1954 the subject of Communism would be a dead and forgotten issue. The raw, harsh unpleasant fact is that Communism is an issue and will be an issue in 1954.

TONY SNOW (sitting in for O'Reilly): This morning, the president pounced on a quote in Sunday's New York Times Magazine where Senator Kerry called terrorists a nuisance. (October 10, 2004)

MCCARTHY: You know the [American] Civil Liberties Union has been listed as "a front for, and doing the work of," the Communist Party?

OREILLY: [T]here is no question the ACLU and the judges who side with them are terror allies. (July 25, 2005)

MCCARTHY: Now, you wrote a book in 1932. I'm going to ask you again: at the time you wrote this book, did you feel that professors should be given the right to teach sophomores that marriage -- and I quote -- "should be cast out of our civilization as antiquated and stupid religious phenomena?" Was that your feeling at that time?

O'REILLY: You can understand how people like me and maybe a lot of people watching think you are a loony lefty when your book, Fanatics & Fools [...] is endorsed by the following: Molly Ivins; Bill Maher, Bill Moyers; and Larry David. Why don't you get Che Guevara on that, oh, he's dead. How about Fidel Castro? Come on, they are the far left fringe. That's who you're hanging with ... (April 20, 2004)

And so forth.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2005 :  01:04:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I heard the words 'cold war' brought up in regards to the 'war on terror' yesterday as well. It was quite depressing to think the Bush admin started the 'cold war' anew but I think they actually did.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2005 :  09:17:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
O'REILLY: You can understand how people like me...



I think many people, like myself, DO understand you very well, Mr. O'Reilly. But what we understand isn't what you think we "understand."

beskeptigal-

For a time it seemed there was a "danger" we'd run out of mortal enemies ("Without the USSR, what's going to justify spending N% of our GNP on new bombs and poison gasses?") Since we now (again) seem to have an abundant supply of enemies (unfortunately) I see no incentive to drag the "Red Threat" out of its coffin.

Ron White
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2005 :  13:57:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
For a time it seemed there was a "danger" we'd run out of mortal enemies ("Without the USSR, what's going to justify spending N% of our GNP on new bombs and poison gasses?") Since we now (again) seem to have an abundant supply of enemies (unfortunately) I see no incentive to drag the "Red Threat" out of its coffin.

If you let your redicals set the course and pace (as they have done the last six years, maybe more) then you'll end up with the whole world as potential enemies.

Get organized, right now!
Save you country (and the world) before it's too late!
Vote republicans out of office!

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 10/16/2005 :  17:15:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
By today's standards, we ARE the radicals... in fact, anybody to the "Left" of Newt Gingrich might qualify. Today, Ronald Reagan would be a "Moderate Conservative"... not a radical, but a little further "Left" than the powers that be would prefer.

Ron White
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2005 :  00:32:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I didn't mean we were in a cold war with the commies. I just said we were in a new cold war. We gotta fight that terror threat you know. Poor money down the drain of corporate weapons production. Vote for the Republicans that can protect us, not the wimpy Democrats and so on goes the fear mongering.
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 10/17/2005 :  04:03:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

...Vote for the Republicans that can protect us, not the wimpy Democrats...


Good to see you're enlightened, but don't fall into the ole' commie trap. bin Laden might talk Islam and all that, but as soon as Iraq falls... he'll head the Iraqi politboro, and the Red flag with the star goes up.

Ron White
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vrwc
New Member

47 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  10:20:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send vrwc a Private Message
I see the topic of Jos. McCarthy is being revived. Main reason is the realization, on the left, that post boomer generations have no idea who they're talking about when they accuse conservatives of "McCarthyism". Since name-calling is a staple of leftist agrument they feel the need to revive the myth. I notice that Hollywood has obligingly concocted a movie to promote this.For a concise analysis of the McCarythy myth I recommend the coverage in Ann Coulter's TREASON.I'm now looking around for a used copy of Buckley and Bozell's book, I believe the title is MCCARTHY AND HIS ENEMIES.vrwc
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Trish
SFN Addict

USA
2102 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  10:48:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Trish a Private Message
vrwc,

I was concerned about the McCarthy like rhetoric of the Bush administration during his first term in office. I'm not exactly old enough to have lived through McCarthy, though my parentals are. I happen to be an Independant Moderate, would have considered myself a republican in the terms of Russel Train. The Bush administration has fostered the notion of with us/against us as a dichotomy of positions, this is simply not the case. I took an oath to uphold and defend the constitution, that includes freedom of religion, freedom of speech, that no religious litmus test shall be administered for public office. Yet, this administration consistently supports the idea that freedom of religion means the 'freedom to push religion down your throat', rather than freedom to choose to practice any religion desired, as long as those practices do not infringe on the rights of others. The Bush administration has attempted to curtail the freedom of speech of particular groups who disagree with him. Specifically, Inhofe and his stand on the environment and the Data Quality Act and the idea of 'Sound Science' as sold by the Republican party. If Inhofe and the administration disagree with the majority of scientific opinion, find 'experts' willing to sell themselves and their integrity and get them to show the consensus of scientific opinion isn't 'Sound Science'. Squash the real sound science of research and present the version you want. This isn't freedom of speech, this is restriction of information.

McCarthism is alive and well in a new mantle, cause 'if ya ain't fer us, yer agin' us.'

...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  11:07:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vrwc

...McCarthy is being revived. Main reason is the realization, on the left...


Welcome to SFN, evrc!

Your view is rather unique from what I've read on the SFN website, and I hope you find time to add a few lines of your perspective to the various other political discussions involving current political affairs. I, personally, am not knowledgeable enough to comment on them in other than a rudimentary way, and I admit that my level of knowledge of those issues isn't adequate to render judgements which are meaningful. Politics isn't "my thing."

Relating Rinfret's perspective to the current political Left is an interesting view... didn't pick that up reading Rinfret's comments, and I now see what you mean. Rinfret has a different reference frame of life experience, and I can now see how such might apply.

I've seen Ann's book around... I'll pick it up next time I'm at the library. Incidentally, Rinfret neither likes her book- nor her- I read on another of his political commentaries. You are absolutely correct, there's a lot of inapplicable "name-calling" that goes on in the political arena today, including that of the nature you describe. The American conservative right bears no semblance to Communism by any stretch of the imagination, neither in the theoretical sense (which has never existed) nor the sense in which it's have come to have been known (USSR, China, etc.)

Rinfret, despite his impressive qualities, to me exemplifies the power of strong social influences of decades past to skew a perspective. Threats to the country today are of a different nature. In my mind, the predominate issue is fiscal irresponsibility. The gravity and significance of our imprudent expenditures and trade policies in recent decades will weigh upon us heavily in the future. Although I find his perspective convoluted, I do agree with Rinfret in that the foreseeable future stance of China is a "wildcard" the US might have reason to be vary of.

I hope you add your input to some of the posts by other members regarding our present political landscape. Your view is different. Welcome to SFN.

Ron White
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vrwc
New Member

47 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  11:07:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send vrwc a Private Message
Trish

Thank you for illustrating my point. vrwc
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Trish
SFN Addict

USA
2102 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  11:46:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Trish a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by vrwc

Trish

Thank you for illustrating my point. vrwc



Beg pardon. Either I am completely misreading your intentions in your post, or you are misreading mine.

Let me clarify my points and yours as I understand them, then you can correct if necessary your point of view.

You:

The revival of McCarthism is an attempt on the part of the 'Liberal Left' to place the 'Conservative Right' into an (to use a McCarthyesque term) UnAmerican position by use of the ad hominem which is the 'Left's' main tactic. Therefore the 'Left' is using scare tactics to swing the vote/sypathies from the 'Right'.

Me:

My concern is that the 'Right' is engaged in McCarthyesque techniques to push the entire political system of the US down a road that is counter to the Constitution and its basic premise of freedoms.

I stated my political position up front to avoid the labeling of 'Uber Leftist' which has occurred on more than one occassion, as has being called an 'Uber Rightist'. Neither of which applies to me. I'm a conservationist, prior military, atheist, pro-choice/abortion shouldn't be the primary option, moderate, unaffiliated to any political party, individual. FYI, read many of my political posts with just a grain of sarcasm, as in the last line of my previous post. That will be the only time, you will notice, that my grammar and spelling are not of some standards.

Well, I hope we can now have a rational discussion of the issues, based on clarifications of positions.

Edited: Because, apparently, I can not proofread my own posts well.

...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
Edited by - Trish on 11/06/2005 11:49:31
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2005 :  12:18:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I am old enough to remember McCarthy. He was an alcoholic blight on the public discourse and finally ended up in the disgrace he richly deserved.

"Have you no shame, sir? At long last, have you no shame?"

In retrospect, I've always thought of him as the first of the neo-nazis.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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