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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2001 : 08:40:10
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Poll Question:
How should we deal with the problem of sexual consent and youth?
Edited by - tergiversant on 11/02/2001 08:40:45
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Poll Status:
Locked »» |
Total Votes: 0 counted »» |
Last Vote:
never |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2001 : 08:43:44 [Permalink]
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The problem here is that sometimes relatively young couples do in fact engage in consensual sex. Why should it be consensual sex when they are 14 and 16 years old, but rape two years thereafter? How do state laws address this problem? How should it be dealt with, IYHO?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 08:45:30 [Permalink]
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Right now the supreme court is looking at a case that involves child porn that is very intereting. Is it illegal when it is digitally made to look like children are having sex when they really are not?
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 09:10:23 [Permalink]
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I heard about that one. It brings up a lot of interesting questions. For example, if it becomes illegal to do digital kiddy porn, would that affect other art forms? And if so, could the law also spill over to include the written word?
As to the question, I think the statutory rape laws need to be reconsidered. Nobody's ever stopped the kids from expermenting with sex and they never will. The laws should be aimed at the sexual preditors.
Also, sex education in the schools is a must. The best protection a young person can have is knowledge.
f
The more I learn about people, the better I like rattlesnakes. |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 09:14:36 [Permalink]
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Yeah I agree with sex ed in schools but only because parents are dropping the ball on this. It really should be the responsibility of parents as so many like to point out. But since they are not taking care of this for the most part the schools need to step in.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 10:15:58 [Permalink]
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I don't know how to answer the question. Somehow I think that sex makes the issue emotionally charged. What I think might be better is to view it in terms of injury and exploitation somehow instead of just sex.
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 12:22:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
As to the question, I think the statutory rape laws need to be reconsidered. Nobody's ever stopped the kids from experimenting with sex and they never will. The laws should be aimed at the sexual predators.
I agree completely, but I cannot think of any decent way to implement it. How do we define sexual predators? More than 5 years older than the younger participant? What if a post-pubescent sexually active 13 year-old boy comes on his piano teacher and the teacher acquiesces? How can that be called predation? Surely such an exception truly proves the rule in this sort of scenario. How do we formulate rules so that the punish only those worthy of punishment?
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 12:43:28 [Permalink]
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I think we would do well to question beliefs that generate statements like "worthy of punishment."
I'd rather hear what's best for all concerned.
quote:
How do we formulate rules so that the punish only those worthy of punishment?
Lisa Lisa, sad Lisa Lisa - Cat Stevens |
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ZaphodBeeblebrox
Skeptic Friend
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 15:10:07 [Permalink]
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At the moment at least, I am the Only one who has Voted for a Relative Age Limit.
From the data that I have seen, the only times that a larger than 3 or 4 Year gap exists between Sexual (Consenting) Partners, is when an Adult has been put in charge of a Minor, usually at the behest of that Minor's Parents or Legal Guardians, the Mary Kay Latourno case, definitely coming to mind. In those cases, the Adult has been given a Responsibility, not unlike that a Doctor or Nurse, can have, over an Adult. Similar discouragements, should probably be used in either case.
As for the Extreme Cases, i.e. Sex between Minors or a True case of Paedophilia, I think that Common Sense is the Best Arbiter. Adults, and not Minors, should be Punished for Seducing a(nother) Minor.
If you Ignore Your Rights, they WILL, go away.
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 11/02/2001 17:47:43
Edited by - ZaphodBeeblebrox on 11/02/2001 17:48:17 |
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2001 : 23:08:51 [Permalink]
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3 or 4 year gap!? Ha, what children you are.
Little old man walks onto burlesque stage with tall blonde stripper. Baggy pants comedian greets him.
BPC: Moshe, it's good to see ya!
M: Good news Tricksey here and me is gonna get married.
Tricksey puts her hands behind her head and does bumps and grinds while drummer does rim shots.
BPC takes M aside by elbow.
BPC: But Moshe you're 89 and she's 18.
M: So?
BPC: Well..you know the honeymoon...sex...there could be a heart attack!
M (looks at Tricksey): Vell, if she dies, she dies.
Rim shot!!!!
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2001 : 20:55:55 [Permalink]
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Unfortunately Slater - age has to be a consideration, because the only other option (how mature are they) is too subjective by far for the courts to deal with. Plus under that criteria we'd have *adults* who shouldn't be engaging in sexual activity.
Ohhh, wait - can we use that to control the population of the fundies?
It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them. -Mark Twain |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2001 : 08:57:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Unfortunately Slater - age has to be a consideration, because the only other option (how mature are they) is too subjective by far for the courts to deal with...
Pubescence isn't subjective, though. Perhaps in the case of clearly post-pubescent, mentally competant individuals, what should matter is whether they consented to the sexual relationship. If a sexually experienced 15 y.o. named Lolita comes on to an older man (like in that book by Nabokov), say, her English teacher (like in that song by Sting) then why should he be convicted of rape? Seems a bit harsh all things considered. But then glaring exceptions make for poor rules...
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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gezzam
SFN Regular
Australia
751 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2001 : 10:40:14 [Permalink]
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In Australia, the age of consent is 16 years old (I think), however these people are still classified as a minor until 18 years of age.....
If one cannot vote, drive a car or consume alcohol until the age of 18, you would think it logical that they could not have sex (which is presumably an ADULT act) until then either.
But genetically we are able to conceive at a far younger age, and in days of old it was not uncommon for an older man to marry and sleep with a girl as young as 12 or 13.
So the laws should be open to interpretation, I am aware of many friends that have committed statutary rape unknowingly. It's not that hard for a 15 year old girl to sneak into a bar or nightclub....then if asked, of course she will lie about her age.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2001 : 12:11:19 [Permalink]
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Maybe someone knows about this better than I, but I seem to remember hearing (a number of times, actually) that not that long ago, women would typically not start menstruating until the late teens. Now 11 to 13 seems to be about average.
I'm not sure if this is true, and how far back this supposedly was, but I wonder what, if any, impact something like this would have on the social aspects of sex. Are men somehow more attracted sexually to women simply because they are capable of childbearing? And as women become capable earlier in their lives, will males somehow be able to pick up on that subconsciously, thus bringing this issue of appropriate age more and more into the forum of public debate?
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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tergiversant
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2001 : 12:43:38 [Permalink]
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I imagine that men are physically attracted to girls that look fertile (sexy) regardless of whether they happen to be 13 or 19 years old. If a girl looks like she is a woman, men tend to think of her as such.
This is consistent with personal experience and sexual selection theory in evolutionary biology.
"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione."
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Espritch
Skeptic Friend
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2001 : 14:30:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
If a sexually experienced 15 y.o. named Lolita comes on to an older man (like in that book by Nabokov), say, her English teacher (like in that song by Sting) then why should he be convicted of rape?
I suspect it is because the older man in this situation is expected to be the adult and take responsibility for his actions.
Frankly, I don't see a problem with leaving the statutory rape laws as they are. While the rate that teenagers matures differs a lot(I'm referring to psychological maturity), it would be impractical to try to judge every incidence on a case by case basis. 18 as the age of consent may be arbitrary, but trying to use other standards would probably be just as arbitrary and prone to personal bias.
Before we start fixing the age of consent, perhaps we should ask if it is actually broken?
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