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yaxxbarl
New Member

United Kingdom
7 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2001 :  12:33:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send yaxxbarl a Private Message
quote:

Well, I don't think we're referring to all xians. However, here in the states there are large groups of what we call fundies. They are primarily concerned with shoving their belief system onto everyone. We had a president that said if you don't believe in gawd your not a real citizen of the US. These are the ones who feel sorry for those of us who don't believe in their god. These are the ones who have no compunction against telling you that Jesus loves you and your going to burn in hell for eternity with their sicky sweet voices and smiles.



Aye, I've heard of them over here too. Sometimes I wonder if they believe in some other God that I've not heard of yet. Ah, well....

quote:

I personally don't have a problem with what other people believe, I do have problems with someone trying to foist their beliefs on me. Kansas is an excellent example, they almost passed laws to teach creationism in the schools. That goes against the direct separation of church and state put forth by the constitution.



Absolutely! I've always reckoned that NOT seperating church and state is asking for trouble - state religion can, and has been, used as excuse to repress people or for worse atrocities. Witness the Spanish Inquisition, the pogroms against the Jews, the Final Solution and the 'Ethnic Cleansing' in the Balkans.
I'm even more against things like Darwinian evolution not being taught in schools because it disagrees with some religious book! They'll be outlawing algebra next as it wasn't in the Bible. Then they'll tell us the earth's flat and the Earth's the centre of universe. Oh yes, they'll end up saying we can't make up our own minds about it either as God's made them up for us, and it will always agree with whatever they say is so.

Going back to the general theme of the topic, I once had an encounter with some Mormons in Preston, my home town.

It was a rainy night and I'd just got off of the train and was heading to catch a bus to my Grandad's. When this besuited trio come up to me and ask 'Excuse me, we're going around tonight asking people what is the meaning of life?'. They were thinking they'd got me now.

I wasn't in the mood for them trying to recruit me so I replied with 'The meaning of life is to find what the meaning of life is' and bid them farewell.

All they said was 'Oh' and left me to try someone else.



Yaxx.

Edited by - yaxxbarl on 06/05/2001 12:47:29
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Slater
SFN Regular

USA
1668 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2001 :  12:55:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Slater a Private Message
lldemats--There are many reasons people believe. Faith helps some people.
So I have heard, but I have never actually seen it help someone. Nor can I imagine why "faith" alone should be considered the least bit positive if it is not base on a known fact. How do you figure that "Faith helps some people"? What do you base this statement on?

When the dead talk -- they talk to him
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2001 :  13:12:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message
That is a very good point Slater. The idea of faith being necessary is repeated so much that even the skeptics say it. You have to wonder what people would say in a world where people of faith were the minority. Living in a faithless world doesn't seem to bother the skeptics so why shouldn't it work for everyone?

@tomic

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
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James
SFN Regular

USA
754 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2001 :  19:57:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send James a Yahoo! Message Send James a Private Message
quote:

Going back to the general theme of the topic, I once had an encounter with some Mormons in Preston, my home town.
It was a rainy night and I'd just got off of the train and was heading to catch a bus to my Grandad's. When this besuited trio come up to me and ask 'Excuse me, we're going around tonight asking people what is the meaning of life?'. They were thinking they'd got me now.
I wasn't in the mood for them trying to recruit me so I replied with 'The meaning of life is to find what the meaning of life is' and bid them farewell.
All they said was 'Oh' and left me to try someone else.



LOL Good one, Yaxx!

quote:

Contrary to what some would have you believe it's actually quite a hard set of beliefs to try and live by, and I for one don't go round being sickeningly happy all the time proclaiming about how Jesus loves me and everybody and so on - life is not made as simple as they make out.
Now I've got that out of the way my tale is that I was once having a discussion/argument with someone about evolution.
Now this fellow had always had a new-agey view on things but had by then got very deeply into the Christian thing. I started to get really concerned when he started to say that the estimated timescale for life to arise and for life to develop to the point where we're at was 'too short'.
I tried to argue this point by saying that the billions of years we were talking about are a length of time such that most of us would have trouble writing down with the correct number of zeroes in it let alone trying to visualise how long a time it is. He still wouldn't have it.
I then argued that whilst evolution is based around theories and may not be the full picture, it is the best one we've got that seems to fit in with a lot of what we see in nature and in the fossil record.
His answer was that the rocks were created with the fossils already in them. At this point I decided to call it a day and leave him to it.



Oh, and welcome to the evolution side of the agrument. Just as frustrating over here as well. Believe me, you will be glad later in life for just giving up for the day.

"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." -Master Yoda
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 06/29/2001 :  19:12:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:

I seldom go out of my way to make the acquaintance of sweet little baloney believers and hogwash harassers (wasting precious time in my life with nonsense). I actually feel sorry for such people, because of what they are missing in their poor little lives. They are petrified of thinking otherwise because of a fear of the nonexistent consequences of such irreverent thought.

On the other hand, when peddlers of religious materials, or other such baloney, make any attempt to push their foolish ideas upon me, I take exception to that rule.

On many mornings, when I had been ready to get into my car to go to work, some female would come running up to my car to offer me pamphlets and other religious reading materials. Each time, I had always politely declined. Finally, having become tired of refusing the reading materials, I merely asked her if she *would like TO HEAR ABOUT MY RELIGION* (which actually is of the *whatever exists, exists* kind). She scurried away as fast as her legs would take her. She has never bothered me since. Perhaps she saw imaginary horns growing out of my head, or something. Poor soul...

ljbrs





I very occasionally get a Jehovia's Witness from time to time. I merely reveal that I am a practicing Wiccan and they disappear faster than you can say "Watchtower".

I have been met with some people saying that I am going to hell, in league with the devil, etc.

I sometimes reply that if I was, I'd be having a better time.

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yaxxbarl
New Member

United Kingdom
7 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2001 :  13:20:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send yaxxbarl a Private Message
quote:

I very occasionally get a Jehovia's Witness from time to time. I merely reveal that I am a practicing Wiccan and they disappear faster than you can say "Watchtower".



Oh yes. A friend of mine from Caernarfon in North Wales often reveals to these kind of people that he is a Druid, which has a similar effect. I did try saying to some JWs that I was a revolutionary communist once but that actually seemed to encourage them.

Ah, well....

Yaxx.

Yaxx.
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ljbrs
SFN Regular

USA
842 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2001 :  15:06:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ljbrs a Private Message
James:

[quote] 'The meaning of life is to find what the meaning of life is' quote]

I love that. That one is a great rejoinder. I shall remember that one. I always say, "I believe that whatever is, is", or, "I believe that whatever exists, exists." Therefore, if their ideas are true, we would agree. There is no rejoinder to that one and they leave me alone. I am not seeking agreement. I just want to be left alone by those proselytizers. Wasting time with silliness is not for me. I make no attempt to change their ideas, because I do not want to get into a religious fighting match which has no solutions. If you want to reach anybody, you must do so when they are children who have not yet formed hard and fast irrational beliefs. Change can happen with adults, but I believe in approaching them in a non-threatening manner. If they are interested, they will come to these ideas on their own without any help from me. The information is out there, and if they do not become skeptical about religion and religious views by the time they are adults, it probably is too late. Most people who change their opinions probably saw the holes in the theories of religion early on in life. Accepting skepticism wholly takes time.

ljbrs

When they know better, they will do better...

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Pyrrho
New Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2001 :  10:48:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Pyrrho a Private Message
It happened many years ago when I was still a freshman working my way thru college at a small store. An elderly customer took a strange interest in me for unknown reasons and used to talk to me in the third person by addressing my boss, as in "Does he go to college? What is he studying? Oh, he's a Professional Student, eh?" This was bizarre enough, but it got worse.

After a few weeks of this, this customer discovered that I was a geology student, at which point he deigned to speak to me directly. "If you're a geology student, then you must believe in erosion. Explain to me where all the dirt went from the Rocky River, the Mississippi River, and the Grand Canyon." I explained to him that it was all in the respective bottoms of Lake Erie, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Gulf of California, except such sediment as had been deposited on flood plains. He disagreed of course, citing Noah's Flood, specifically the part where the springs of the earth were opened, etc. It was his view that the Grand Canyon and other such features were scars left by the various openings of the abyss which caused the Biblical Flood, and that it was a myth that they were formed by erosion, that water couldn't erode rock, and that everything I was learning as a geology student was wrong and that I was wasting my parent's money. He even claimed that the clay that oozed up in the gravel parking lot after heavy rains was put there by the Flood.

I responded that 1) I was paying my own way thru college and wasn't costing my parents a dime, 2) That I couldn't possibly be a Professional Student because the college had yet to pay me anything for studying there, I had to pay them, and 3) That his ideas were pure bullshit as evidenced by the continuing need to dredge channels, by core samples which definitely showed sedimentation, the fact that erosion could be observed in process at all those locations, that I knew more about erosion, geology, and even the Bible than he'd ever know, and 4) He should think twice before ever again attempting to ridicule an intellectual superior.

Ooh boy was he mad. "Well I'll never shop here again," was his parting reply, and my boss said, "Good riddance."
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular

USA
1447 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2001 :  11:35:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Tokyodreamer a Private Message
Welcome Pyrrho, and great story!

------------

Ma gavte la nata!
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Aodoi
New Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2001 :  13:26:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Aodoi a Private Message
I once had a salesguy mention to me that he was a fundamentalist Christian. The Chicago Cubs were on the radio at the time, and he kind of off handedly mentioned that he thought God had a sense of humor and would make the end of the world happen right after the Cubs won the World Series...

He seemed quite sincere about it. I just tried very hard not to laugh.

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James
SFN Regular

USA
754 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2001 :  13:46:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send James a Yahoo! Message Send James a Private Message
quote:

It happened many years ago when I was still a freshman working my way thru college at a small store. An elderly customer took a strange interest in me for unknown reasons and used to talk to me in the third person by addressing my boss, as in "Does he go to college? What is he studying? Oh, he's a Professional Student, eh?" This was bizarre enough, but it got worse.

After a few weeks of this, this customer discovered that I was a geology student, at which point he deigned to speak to me directly. "If you're a geology student, then you must believe in erosion. Explain to me where all the dirt went from the Rocky River, the Mississippi River, and the Grand Canyon." I explained to him that it was all in the respective bottoms of Lake Erie, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Gulf of California, except such sediment as had been deposited on flood plains. He disagreed of course, citing Noah's Flood, specifically the part where the springs of the earth were opened, etc. It was his view that the Grand Canyon and other such features were scars left by the various openings of the abyss which caused the Biblical Flood, and that it was a myth that they were formed by erosion, that water couldn't erode rock, and that everything I was learning as a geology student was wrong and that I was wasting my parent's money. He even claimed that the clay that oozed up in the gravel parking lot after heavy rains was put there by the Flood.

I responded that 1) I was paying my own way thru college and wasn't costing my parents a dime, 2) That I couldn't possibly be a Professional Student because the college had yet to pay me anything for studying there, I had to pay them, and 3) That his ideas were pure bullshit as evidenced by the continuing need to dredge channels, by core samples which definitely showed sedimentation, the fact that erosion could be observed in process at all those locations, that I knew more about erosion, geology, and even the Bible than he'd ever know, and 4) He should think twice before ever again attempting to ridicule an intellectual superior.

Ooh boy was he mad. "Well I'll never shop here again," was his parting reply, and my boss said, "Good riddance."



You had a good boss there, Pyrrho. I hope you two departed on good terms.

quote:
I once had a salesguy mention to me that he was a fundamentalist Christian. The Chicago Cubs were on the radio at the time, and he kind of off handedly mentioned that he thought God had a sense of humor and would make the end of the world happen right after the Cubs won the World Series...

He seemed quite sincere about it. I just tried very hard not to laugh.


Well, Aodoi, at the rate the Cubbies are going, he may actually be right.....

"When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good you will not." -Master Yoda
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comradebillyboy
Skeptic Friend

USA
188 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2001 :  21:26:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send comradebillyboy a Private Message
when i was in graduate school, many years ago, one evening i was in my little apartment grinding out my reactor theory homework when two teenaged girls from the local baptist church knocked on my door. they asked me what would become of me when i died. i responded that i supposed i would rot. nonononono they cried what about your immortal soul? they were shocked when i told them i didnt think i had one. they left in a huff before i could invite them in to smoke some dope and have group sex. too bad.

comrade billyboy
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Aodoi
New Member

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2001 :  10:32:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Aodoi a Private Message
Heh, I might have agreed with the guy thinking that he simply meant "never," except that the Cubs haven't managed to crash and burn yet (it is just a matter of time, of course).

And always remember, have the religious discussion AFTER the sex and dope... ;)

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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2001 :  11:37:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message
quote:

when i was in graduate school, many years ago, one evening i was in my little apartment grinding out my reactor theory homework when two teenaged girls from the local baptist church knocked on my door. they asked me what would become of me when i died. i responded that i supposed i would rot. nonononono they cried what about your immortal soul? they were shocked when i told them i didnt think i had one. they left in a huff before i could invite them in to smoke some dope and have group sex. too bad.

comrade billyboy



Honk! Honk!

My first close encounter of the third kind was back in my college days. The doorknockers for christ were skulking around early one Saturday morning.
I let the JW's IN!........GAACK!! Talk about self-victimizing! Yep, sometimes there's a heavy price to pay for an education.
I argued a bit with them then proceeded to clean my living room while they both shifted into AD/HD pontification mode.
After about 15 minutes of it, I finally urged them out the door. I then turned around and was amazed at my now sparkling-clean living room!
A great motivator for house cleaning, I must say.

From then on, when any are lurking at my front door, I tell them I'm a "Druid, reformed" or " reading the bible is against my religion". That always hurries them off my doorstep and I get to keep my messy living room.
By the looks of things around here today, I might should let them in again sometime soon.
Is this where "Cleanliness is next to godlyness" comes from?

Hey!, maybe I can just clean house without the added torment and guilt trippers!

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
Groucho Marx.
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theatheistknight
New Member

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2001 :  18:34:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit theatheistknight's Homepage Send theatheistknight a Private Message
I had an e-mail exchange with a very strange xian. His main argument in our debate/argument was that, since so many people believe in God, he must be real. Well, who can argue with logic like that? After I ended the debate, he sent me a couple more e-mails calling me an "atheist loser" and kept telling me he would be laughing at from heaven while I was in hell.

It's a good thing God allows a sense of humor up there.

Richard J. Allen
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