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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
 Posted - 12/19/2005 : 06:59:02
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The original 1967(?) version. Something that I was struck by was when they are injected into the blood stream, the sympathetic doctor character gazes in reverence at the "perfectness" of the body's blood cells and various "mechanisms" and rapturously spouts odes to the wondrousness of it all and how great the ultimate Creator is. Donald Pleasance plays the unsympathetic scientist character who dismisses such dreamy-eyed mysticism with lines like: "it's a simple exchange of gasses", to which the doctor replies astonished that the mean old scientist is blind to the obvious wonder and miracle of "God's Creation".
What I was struck by was A) how "current" the dialogue sounded for a 38-year old movie, echoing the current "intelligent" designer debate; B) how the makers of this movie, and so many others, love to portray "scientists" (even the term is so needlessly and inaccurately generic) and cold, cynical, intractible, and utterly lacking in sentiment or emotion; and C) that this debate probably won't be settled in our lifetime. The "meme" of evolution probably needs generations to finally replace the silly fantasy of creationism, much as the flat-earth and geo-centric fantasies needed many many years to become accepted. Does anyone have an idea how long for these fantasies were clung to, or any other thoughts on this?
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2005 : 08:55:50 [Permalink]
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| I watch children's cartoons often (since I have a 3 year old daughter) and most of the time the "evil" character is a professor or doctor or some other scientist type. I definitely agree that scientists are generally portrayed in the US as cold and unfeeling. This probably comes from the fact that scientists use logic and fact to make decisions, as oppposed to warm and fuzzy emotions. This, combined with the general craptastic education system with a lack of focus on science, math, logic, and critical thinking, means that, at least in the US, it will take quite some time for the fantasy of creationism to be obliterated. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2005 : 17:14:04 [Permalink]
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It's the old morals come from God nonsense. Science is definitely becoming more and more the representative anti-Christ.
You make an excellent point here, BTW. |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2005 : 22:54:05 [Permalink]
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| RE the 60's movie "Fantastic Voyage" I remember seeing it when I was a kid, and it must have been well-made (for the day) because I recall being impressed by the special effects. RE contrasting the "cold, hard, angry, and clearly neurotic atheistic scientist" to the "warm, genuine, well-adjusted, and happy theist"... yeah, that's a ploy I've seen a few times in commercials, movies, advertisements, and the like... I laughed, as it seemed so typical of silly "hate spin" (e.g. if this were the 1920's, the they might as well have been depicting an Asian as a "cunning, sly, and sinister Oriental", or a Jew as "mercenary, financially devious, and untrustworthy"). Just another stupid stereotype. "Scientology" did that in some of their commercials, and they exagerated it so much it was campy and pretty funny... they included every "angry, hardened, calculated, and uncaring scientist" cliche I could think of in the advertisement, except including a scientist who was a mean-looking bald guy with a monocle! Even though most adults would quickly recognize this as just another dumb and inaccurate generalization, it's easy to imagine how the uninformed could be led to believe such about those who's livelihood is coldly manipulating equations, and the like... yet what's still a little paradoxical to me is that based on my own experiences, the very opposite seems more true. Agnostic scientists I've met have been some very decent and honest people... if I had to trust one I didn't know with some of my money, for instance, I'd be pretty confident it would be handled honestly. Strange as it seems, I really couldn't say the same about a randomly picked member of the Bible-pounding crowd. Could it be that there's the way soap opera wisdom dictates the world works, and then there's the way things really are?. |
Ron White |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2005 : 14:24:14 [Permalink]
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| Wasn't the story written by Isaac Asimov? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2005 : 15:01:36 [Permalink]
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| Yes, he's done a book with the same name, but it isn't the same story as the movie, I think. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2005 : 18:19:08 [Permalink]
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| Actually, Asimov did the novelization of the film, though he did smarten it up a bit. Some years later, he wrote his own version of Fantastic Voyage that used the basic premise of the film but was pretty much original in content. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2005 : 10:16:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by steinhenge
Actually, Asimov did the novelization of the film, though he did smarten it up a bit. Some years later, he wrote his own version of Fantastic Voyage that used the basic premise of the film but was pretty much original in content.
That would explain the resemblance between the two. The Asimov novel is closer to the 1966 movie than Inner Space, which is also about shrinking a submarine into microscopic size and inject it into a living body. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2005 : 23:49:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
I watch children's cartoons often (since I have a 3 year old daughter) and most of the time the "evil" character is a professor or doctor or some other scientist type. I definitely agree that scientists are generally portrayed in the US as cold and unfeeling.
Just this morning I finally got around to watching "War of the Worlds" again, hadn't seen it in many years. Bought a copy several months ago. Had been one of my favorite movies because of one scene, since the 1st time I saw it as a kid. Can you guess which one?
Anyway, Gene Barry(the scientist) is caring, sympathic and doesn't act like an egghead in this film, IMO.
I also like that it at least touches on the fact that space creatures aren't human or godlike. (even if they appear to have two arms and legs, oh well you can't have everything!) |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 00:25:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Can you guess which one?
I'll bet I nail this one cold. His girlfriend's father was a priest... acts and sounds like he's in la la land, babbling something about how the aliens are undoubtedly benevolent as surely they're Christians, "just like us" (or something of the sort) and he wanders right up to the nose of their death-ray rambling scripture with an idiotic smile, holding his cross up as their weapon sounds like it's "powering-up" or something, while Steve McQueen holds the hysterically screaming daughter back. The aliens immediately blasted him to oblivian, of course, demonstrating in no uncertain terms that they had no compassion for the hopelessly stupid or mentally deficient- let alone the rest of us.
I think for its time, that movie was great scifi. I especially liked that part.
Whoops, gotta' edit... Gene Barry, right, not Steve McQueen (I think he was in "The Blob"... been a while, can't recall for sure.) |
Ron White |
| Edited by - ronnywhite on 12/28/2005 00:39:37 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 01:20:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Just this morning I finally got around to watching "War of the Worlds" again, hadn't seen it in many years. Bought a copy several months ago. Had been one of my favorite movies because of one scene, since the 1st time I saw it as a kid. Can you guess which one? Anyway, Gene Barry(the scientist) is caring, sympathic and doesn't act like an egghead in this film, IMO.
I also like that it at least touches on the fact that space creatures aren't human or godlike. (even if they appear to have two arms and legs, oh well you can't have everything!)
My late father worked on "War of the Worlds". He was in the continuity department. (Making sure a piece of rubble was in the same position to match the shot a day later, etc.) My dad had interesting stories about the movie. Dad always liked the priest getting zapped too! Though the director, George Pal was something of a fundie. Pal started in movies with animated puppets, which he called "Puppetunes". The stories were often religious.
My dad also worked on "Destination Moon", another Pal production which was terrific. Space artist Chesley Bonestell did the lunar matte paintings. Yet another Pal SciFi epic was "When Worlds Collide". He managed to get some religious connotations into that film too, but it was still pretty good.
Some other stuff my dad told me: Yes, as you may have suspected, the Martian death ray was designed to resemble a Cobra head, and moved sideways menacingly in the manner of a snake before striking. They used a garage door spring as the basic sound for the ray building up energy before firing.
A particularly brilliant idea was not to blatantly show the Martians. We get a glimpse of a weird shadow when Gene Berry and Ann Robinson are hiding in the partially destroyed farmhouse. Then we see the Martian hand on her shoulder and she turns and screams. We get a full face three eyed Martian close-up just before Gene slams him and the Martian runs out weirdly screaming with arms flailing. The whole sequence is particularly dreamlike and bizarre.
My dad and I both loved the Northrop flying wings, and it's a delight to see one actually flying in color in that movie.
For the final scene, where we see the dying Martian's arm and hand on the hatch, they used a studio receptionist who had particularly thin arms. They ran an air tube up her arm covered with makeup and latex to simulate the slowing pulse. 
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 02:12:13 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
My late father worked on "War of the Worlds"...
That's pretty neat! I really admire the innovation and creativity they used before the advent of digital effects etc... kind of like the 60's Star Trek series, and the original 2001 Space Odyssey movie. Thought the numbskull priest scene was a little unconventional for the time (we were in a Cold War with "Godless Communism") but I guess his fundie side came through later when a lightning bolt from a cross on a church nailed one of their spaceships I seem to recall, alleviating any inuendos of "Hollywood-Commie" atheism. And that's right, they did have a Flying Wing... I remember they used some of those kind of unique design aircraft in a few old flicks (like the bad-guy pilot hijacked a nuke by landing a British Vulcan on the ocean in one of the 60's James Bond flicks.) Back then aliens were mostly hostile it seems (there was The Thing, The Blob, Invasion of the Body Snatchers etc.) Except for "Forbidden Planet," It wasn't until "ET" when the cinema extraterrestrials started to mellow out. |
Ron White |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2005 : 04:55:36 [Permalink]
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| Actually, and I may be wrong here, the priest scene does exist in the book... |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 06:07:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Actually, and I may be wrong here, the priest scene does exist in the book...
You're probably right, it was kind of a clever way to say "They ain't any nicer than they look, either." Even as a kid, I thought the way they kinda' overdid making the guy come across as a deluded dope who's feet were "firmly planted" in fantasy land was funny as hell, anyway. I don't read much fiction- read too slow for lengthy novels- gotta' mostly rely on the boob tube to spoon-feed me evil alien stories and such. |
Ron White |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2005 : 22:43:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Actually, and I may be wrong here, the priest scene does exist in the book...
I don't read much fiction- read too slow for lengthy novels- gotta' mostly rely on the boob tube to spoon-feed me evil alien stories and such.
I don't read much of anything, haha. But years ago I tried reading 'War of the Worlds', 3 different times. Couldn't get past the 1st chapter. It's not a large book, just the English was difficult. Remember having to ask my mothers teacher who had a British accent what a common was. Gee, why didn't George just say park? (as in a place with grass and trees)
I've never read where H.G.Wells was an atheist, he was a socialist (not that, that makes him anti god!) and did know about science though, so I'm just guessing that he probably wasn't deeply connected to any religious teaching. Some day I gota read that book!
BTW, I did read 'The Invisible Man', even a smaller book but very funny. The movie although good for what it was, the book was much better......as they usualy are.
Yes Ronny, you got that right, it's the scene with the preist holding up the book with the cross on it and getting BBQed.
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