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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2006 :  20:51:37  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
If Katrina was gods punishment for the sins of the Big Easy...

How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth

marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2006 :  21:03:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
You are trying way too hard to be logical. ;-)

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2006 :  21:26:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Satan did it.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2006 :  22:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude...

How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?
On the contrary, most of the miners have been rescued. Hallelujah! Someone prayed and caused a miracle! I guess there aren't too many sinners in the coal mining profession. Apparently there's a very very thin line between wrath and miracle. Hallelujah!
quote:
12 Trapped Miners Found Alive in "Miracle"...

Rescue workers located the 12 men, who had been trapped underground since 6:30 a.m. (1130 GMT) on Monday and were bringing them out of the Sago mine in central West Virginia.

Kay Weaver, whose brother-in-law Jack Weaver was in the mine, said family members learned of the rescue when a man burst into the nearby Sago Baptist Church where relatives were waiting, shouting: "It's a miracle, it's a miracle!."
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  00:51:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Yeah, its a miracle that 12 experienced miners, who were not injured in the initial explosion, knew what to do to survive in a mine while waiting for rescue.

If I were them, I'd be mortally insulted.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  01:08:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
But one of the miners was found dead. I guess he was the unbeliever.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  01:13:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
quote:
How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?

I blame insurance companies. Force majeur has reinforced in the general population that there really are acts of god.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular

501 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  01:35:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ronnywhite a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?


We figured out a while back that pollution (from liberal's bad habits) caused Katrina via global warming. God's pursuing other angles to get back at us now... already hit pollution recently. Gotta' diversify else He'll get too predictable ("Easy-To-Understand" ain't His syle.)

Ron White
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steinhenge
Skeptic Friend

USA
69 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  02:25:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit steinhenge's Homepage Send steinhenge a Private Message
Looks like there was a (tragic) miscommunication; only one miner survived.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion

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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  02:36:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by steinhenge

Looks like there was a (tragic) miscommunication; only one miner survived.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060104/ap_on_re_us/mine_explosion



Wow, that's terrible. You know, when I first heard reports that people were "unoffically" celebrating the rescue of 12 miners, it did cross my mind that it might simply be a hysterical case of wishful thinking. But it's inexcusable that the fucking governor repeated that information without getting his facts straight. How is it that he could go to the international press (I heard it on BBC radio) without making a simple phone call to the proper people first? It might have avoided the fight that broke out in the church. Yet another illustration of the incompetence of elected American leaders.

I heard that a local church was keeping 13 candles burning for the trapped men. One was extinguished earlier this afternoon with the recovered body of the first miner. Time to blow out 11 more. This whole story is just so sad.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/04/2006 02:38:42
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  06:05:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
God only kills off in LARGE numbers. A mere 13 or so is the work of some other agent.

Besides, if they were christian, they went to heaven, so why is everyone upset?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  08:47:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
Looks like it was still a miracle, just not as good of a miracle as they would have wished. Interesting that West Virginia, a political entity, believes in miracles. I wonder if that's their official position.
quote:
12 of 13 W. Va. Miners Confirmed Dead...

Manchin, who had earlier said that the state believed in miracles, tried to focus on the news that one had survived.

"We're clinging to one miracle when we were hoping for 13," he said.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  10:15:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
I saw a part of an interview with one of the people in the church when the news went from bad to worse. He seemed to be saying that people went from praising God for the miracle of 12 survivors to asking "what the hell has God done for us?" Fickle, weren't they?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  10:38:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
Last I heard God was still being credited with 1 miracle. Through God's mysterious ways I'm sure a valuable lesson is being taught.

The accident in the mine is truly sad.

The mental gymnastics required for a supernatural dependency are disturbing.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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hippy4christ
Skeptic Friend

193 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:30:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send hippy4christ a Private Message
quote:
If Katrina was gods punishment for the sins of the Big Easy...

How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was punishment, but what is more likely is that the explosion wasn't so much punishment as it was a lack of protection. For instance:

Luk 13:4-5 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

In general, bad things happening to people are not direct, supernatural punishments, but are simply natural or man-made occurences which unrepentant people are not protected from.

The accident was sad, although I do wish that people would stop the practice ignoring Christ most of the time, calling on Him for help only when you need Him, and then blaming Him when help doesn't show up.

Faith is believing what you are told, whether it's by a priest or a scientist. A person's scientific beliefs are ones based on personal observation and experimentation.

Lists of Logical Fallacies
Edited by - hippy4christ on 01/04/2006 12:33:27
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:59:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by hippy4christ

quote:
If Katrina was gods punishment for the sins of the Big Easy...

How come an explosion in a coal mine isn't gods punishment for the mining industry polluting the environment?

I wouldn't be surprised if it was punishment, but what is more likely is that the explosion wasn't so much punishment as it was a lack of protection. For instance:

Luk 13:4-5 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

In general, bad things happening to people are not direct, supernatural punishments, but are simply natural or man-made occurences which unrepentant people are not protected from.

The accident was sad, although I do wish that people would stop the practice ignoring Christ most of the time, calling on Him for help only when you need Him, and then blaming Him when help doesn't show up.



Ok, Hippy, that tears it.

It never fails to amaze me when the deeply religious ascribe the deaths of people in natural disaster or accident to not having enough fucking faith. And lo and behold, when it is revealed that some or all of the dead were true believing pious folk, all of a sudden (so as to not seem like a complete prick) the purveyors of such "they weren't pious enough" crap shift to "God called them home", "It was their time", and "God works in mysterious ways".

Give me a fucking break. It's an excuse to blame the dead guy for being killed.

Oh, no. The 200+ fucking safety violations had nothing to do with this, right Hippy?

Had to be that they weren't faithful enough.

What a load of bullshit.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 01/04/2006 13:00:23
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