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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend

173 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  07:22:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Subjectmatter a Private Message
You are being condescending, and what you wrote on your blog is not an apology, it is further attempt at demeaning the community at SFN.

First you say that you came here to validate your own psychic abilities, then you say on your blog that you sought to bring more traffic to the site, now you claim your intention was all along to rile us up. Which one is it? And what gives you the advanced understanding of the world to determine whether or not we need to be riled up?

If you took ten minutes to actually look at the various discussions here at SFN you will surely find that we are anything but lying in a dogmatic slumber. The only thing we share as a group is devotion to the skeptic ideal as formulated in the SFN mission which you can see on the home page, and we even have the occasional member who is demonstrably not a skeptic by any account whatsoever; often these people turn out to be obscene and/or obnoxious (BB, HYBRID) but you will find that the moderators here have an inordinate level of tolerance for the most flagrant abuse.

Frankly, considering your odd comments about compassion, I wonder whether you, skepticpsychic are a skeptic at all. Certainly, compassion is an integral part of any skeptic - as PapaSmurf says, helping people differentiate reality from fantasy is one of the greatest forms of compassion - but for the purpose of skepticism compassion is entirely irrelevant. Only the evidence is important. We cannot let emotions cloud our ability for clear thinking.


And please post any political posts in the politics folder, where they can be considered independently of this discussion. Otherwise you confuse the issue at hand and give the impression that you are trying to change the subject, for surely you do not claim that the situation in Darfur is at all relevant to what we are discussing here?

Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate
Edited by - Subjectmatter on 01/18/2006 07:25:18
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  08:34:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by skepticpsychic

My public apology:
Hmmm...
Well folks, apparently my new friends over at the Skeptics Friends Network didn't find a lot of humor in my last post.
Sure didn't, because apparently it was all an inside joke requiring knowledge of what's going on inside your head. That makes the humor potential for others rather limited.
For that, I am eternally sorry that you could not find even a wee bit of amusing self-kidding in that post. I tried to make as much fun of myself as I did you, but apparently I didn't manage to maul myself enough in the same way the hate mail I received from you mauled me. Again my apologies.
Well, we're not psychic, and can't read the "hate mail" you allegedly received via email. Perhaps it came from people who aren't even members here. I certainly can't tell. Can you?
And my apologies to the writers of the emails from SFN who assured me that their mission was to prove that everyone of us evil, deluted psychics is wrong wrong wrong, and that I am full of crap.
Again, how do you know those emails came from SFN members?
Gosh no matter how I tried to connect with you...
Apparently, you were trying to connect with people using false pretenses.
...to share my experiences of growing up psychic, to garner your input you consistently and continually responded with profanities, name calling, and being so very sure YOU are right, and I am wrong.
Good thing those people, whoever they are, don't actually post things like that on the SFN.
And my apologies to the true, open-minded, self-scrutinzing skeptics at the SFN that I will never connect with.
Why won't you? Are you giving up?
Can you accept my apologies and can we start fresh?
I can, so long as you answer this question: are your powers random and not willful, or can you set up "interviews" with specific dead people at specific times? I don't see a way for both claims to be true.
I've learned a big lesson here that I am forever grateful to learn. Don't walk into the enemy camp thinking you can make friends using humor. One false joke and they will blow your brains out.
The problem wasn't the joke, it was that the joke was only funny if one can read your mind, and based upon emails that some of us on the staff here aren't privvy to.
K got it! I'm off to hang with my other friends, the Fundamentalists! At least they have a set of values they claim to abid by. Cheers!
I'll have to assume that's another "joke."
quote:
For heaven sakes people lighten up and start using your power of deductive reasoning that you pride yourself in: I came here only to make money?
Nobody said that. I said that you wrote your "joke" on your blog as a means of making money. You said so. Or was that also a joke? That site is all about writing blog posts for money, after all.
quote:
And how much money do you believe I planned to make driving you to my website with all those psychic hotline listings??
Not us, but people who might agree with you.
quote:
Do you honestly think I planned to get rich because once you read my immaculate postings you would be rushing over there to get a phone reading from someone who just got off the welfare rolls in NYC (true story, the city of NY used the psychic hotline as employment for welfare recipients)? Now THAT'S just nutty..
It is nutty, which is why nobody here thinks that.
quote:
Do you think I came here to trap you into some kind of perspective that would do you harm? Please...
Indeed, please. Please stop insulting my intelligence.
quote:
I have done nothing but try to show you have a big sense of humor about myself.
What? What happened to your other stated intentions? Can you be consistent at all?
quote:
What other person who claims to be psychic would come to the Skeptic Friends Network and start a conversation asking for your input into what she thought she was experiencing and post a self-effecing list of why I can't take Randi's challenge? I AM MAKING FUN OF MYSELF FOR GOD SAKE...
Oh, your top-ten list was sort of amusing. The idea that every post you've made here is an attempt to joke around just means you've wasted our time.
quote:
If you want to get insanely angry about something why not put it towards something that means something, like, reducing nuclear weapons , feeding children, helping the people in Afghanistan make it through the cold cruel winter? Don't get me wrong, we all have interests and activities that are personally meaningful for our lives, but to take yourselves this seriously is not good for your health.

And it doesn't take a *psychic* to tell you that!!
Apparently not, since you've got me all wrong, as well as many others here. The idea that we only get angry about people like you is simply a demonstration of your conceit. The idea that we're not spending time on those other things also is simply blind prejudice.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  10:31:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
skepticpsychic:
And please, don't take my satire too seriously.


Satire is used to illuminate an issue or the human condition with the use of humor.
quote:
Dictionary.com:
sat·ire
n.
1 A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit.

2 Irony, sarcasm, or caustic wit used to attack or expose folly, vice, or stupidity.


I don't see that in your blog. What I see are exaggerations (if that is what you really meant them to be) to create a misleading impression of how you were treated on the thread that you started.

Of the people reading your blog, only those actually involved in the conversation here at SFN would have recognized the false impression that you were promoting in your exaggerations. In other words, you were either writing with a very poison pen or you need a whole lot of instruction on how to do satire. And since you demonstrated a grasp of the art of satire on this site, I'm going with purposely creating a false impression through the use of a poison pen as most likely.

As for your apology, primarily blaming us for any misunderstandings comes up way short. Either have the integrity of owning up to your obvious misrepresentation of our site, or, at least as far as I am concerned, your apology is not accepted. (I do not speak for others here.)

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  10:51:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by skepticpsychic...

Careful, skeptics, of falling into the trap of group mind, the illusion that intellect rules, and the need for concrete proof of everything. Critical thinking is an absolutely necessary part of living a good, healthy life, but if compassion and heart aren't included in your process, you risk becoming the very thing you are seeking to eradicate.
So maybe every so often people should just have a heart and accept unsubstantiated claims such as your claim of being psychic? I have a friend who is mostly convinced we get visited by UFOliens. I ask him to point me to the evidence. He gets huffy and wonders why I always insist on being right all the time. Obviously I'm not insisting on being right; I'm asking him to back up his claim. Well, skepticpsychic, no critical thinking people are just going to say, "Okay, fine, it's your turn to be right. We don't need any evidence. After all, we have a heart."

You came in here and expressed some doubts about your psychic-ness. You asked how you might go about becoming more certain one way or the other. We discussed how you might become more certain, the definitive method being to thoroughly assemble your evidence and allow it to be analyzed in a scientific way. You balked at that idea, to the extent of demeaning and belittling all those who were trying to help you resolve your conflict.

Then you left here and badmouthed us to the rest of the world by lying, and we caught you at it. So now you've come back to say oh, no, you weren't lying, you were being satirical. Well here is a truth that you'd do well to consider in your future writings. If you looked that much like a lying douche bag on your blog, if nobody could tell you were being satirical instead of being flagrantly dishonest, your writing skills are abhorrent. Communication is a two way process. If you write it, and everyone else misunderstands it, it is exclusively your fault for doing such a lousy job of presenting your thoughts. So you ask us to lighten up, apparently in an attempt at defending your lousy writing skills, when in reality it adds to the evidence that you're just a condescending bitch.
quote:
I cherish my time here and despite being spit on, kicked, accused of being a liar, having hate mail sent to me, the positive things I learned here will be forever valuable to me in my work ahead.
You claim to be a psychic. Some of the people here, not all by the way, some people were pretty demanding that you prove it. But you wouldn't. You said you were interested in doing a thorough analysis of your claim, and when we suggested you start by detailing any of your examples, you wouldn't. Some people here suggested you take it to the top, verify your claim with one organization that exists in great part to help people like yourself determine if their psychic abilities are genuine. You wouldn't. You badmouthed James Randi and balked, again, at the opportunity to substantiate your claim.

As to your accusation of being kicked and spit on, if you think being required to put your money where your mouth is amounts to being kicked, you're way too sensitive. Don't ask for criticism or analysis of your claim if you can't take the unvarnished truth. We aren't without heart here, and we aren't without sympathy, but you'll likely not catch us saying, "Oh, poor baby," very often.
quote:
If any of you think you can d
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Subjectmatter
Skeptic Friend

173 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  11:26:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Subjectmatter a Private Message
Very nice GeeMack! An even, slightly caustic tone and a more or less exhaustive, and yet concise, summary of the issues at hand.


Looks like a PotM contender!

Sibling Atom Bomb of Couteous Debate
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  11:49:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by skepticpsychic

Sincerely,

The Staff @ Africa Action
Are you a staff member of Africa Action? I can find no indication that anyone on the staff of Africa Action has ever made the statements you're attributing to them. Perhaps it's a recent email from them, and Google just hasn't picked it up yet. Such a message is not on their web site, but I'll keep an eye open.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  12:10:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
The woman has a short circuit somewhere. I see no rational thought in her posts and conclude any bother to address her rambling posts would be futile. I can't decide if it amounts to a troll or one of those people who live in an alternative reality manifested by being a pathological liar.

No worry, anyone reading her posts would notice the bizarre nature of them unless they themselves were of a similar breed.

I strongly suggest pity rather than anger is the correct response.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  13:18:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
In response to skepticpsychic:
Careful, skeptics, of falling into the trap of group mind

Just because a group of people agree on a single issue, doesn't mean that they have fallen into the trap of group mind. If you'll notice even in this discussion and certainly on this forum overall, we skeptics argue with each other constantly. Your criticisms of us are not specific. You are only drawing generalizations about us as a group.

the illusion that intellect rules

The intellect does not rule in everything. It cannot because intellect alone cannot give us motivation. Emotions play a role. But emotions cannot tell us the objective truth of the natural world. People on this forum have repeatedly explained that the scientific method is a tool for discovering if a claim can be considered knowledge. All we are saying is that you have not proven that you possess psychic powers. And instead of you coming either relenting or coming up with a text by which the tools of skepticism could be used, you turn around and basically saying that you don't have to prove it and that there's something wrong with us for not accepting it!

and the need for concrete proof of everything.

Sometimes – especially in politics – we must make decisions based on not enough information, so clearly only a fool would require “concrete proof of everything”. But if someone is making an extraordinary claim, based on events that cannot be objectively tested and/or cannot even be validated, another person would also be a fool to accept that claim simply on the interpretation of the person making the claim. To put it another way - if Sam tells me that he dreams of pixies, and therefore pixies must exist, while I believe he dreams of pixies (since that is not an extraordinary claim, I would take his word on it), I certainly will not accept his interpretation of that experience. Would you?

For the record, that post on writingup.com came after receiving appalling hate mail from people in your forum.

So “several” people said in hate mail that they are devoted to ridding the world of every last psychic? And where did you get the idea that psychics are our pet project? This is the first discussion I've even been involved with that addresses psychics, and I've been an active member on this forum for months. You certainly did misrepresent the forum on your blog, and a few bad apples send you mean emails does not excuse your actions.

I would never claim to know if you are lying or not. But I can feel hate when I see it.

So people here are wrong to accuse you of lying/misrepresenting yourself, but you are right to accuse us of hatred? The accusations of lies was at least demonstrated in detail where people quoted someone you said on this forum, then quoted a contradictory statement from your blog. If people misunderstood, if indeed you were being sarcastic, then defend yourself. Explain how we are wrong. Don't just call us hate-mongers.

My intention when I came here was to see what the skeptics might suggest about what I have experienced. The level of closed minded hate I found here blew me away. Not everyone, no. But as a rule, your room is as bad as the Christians are with their dogma. Your group mind is apparently lacking in self-scrutiny.

There you go again with the cavalier use of “Christians”. My mother is a Christian, and she's one of the most open-minded people I know. She's pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and a feminist. She believes in religious freedom and equality. If you are going to preach tolerance, you need to be more respectful and choose your own words a little more carefully.

Also, it is darn hard to believe you came here to talk about things other that how you are skeptical of skeptics when this is the only conversation you get involved with. Why aren't you discussing other issues? You've basically picked a fight and now are denouncing this whole forum as being adversari

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 01/18/2006 13:20:09
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  13:47:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I myself, am curious as to exactly who sent the hateful emails, if indeed such were sent. It really doesn't sound like something any of the regulars here would do.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  13:52:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by skepticpsychic

Sincerely,

The Staff @ Africa Action


Are you a staff member of Africa Action? I can find no indication that anyone on the staff of Africa Action has ever made the statements you're attributing to them. Perhaps it's a recent email from them, and Google just hasn't picked it up yet. Such a message is not on their web site, but I'll keep an eye open.

Dave, I think she has seen that they are going to make these statements.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  13:56:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
And how did this person know that they came from members of SFN?

Oh wait....pyschic powers?

Or did the these supposed emails state:

"Hi. I am a member of SFN and my username is ______. You (*&$(#)*)_ *$U $)#$)#$*..."

Again, how do you know this was really the same person from SFN? Was I one of the ones who sent the email?

Care to prove this, or maybe we should take it on faith that you are telling the truth about this?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  19:33:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
Become someone committed to peacemaking.

Oh the irony…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  19:42:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox:

Historically the bad seems to have outweighed the good.

How do you figure? When a religious person does either compassionate or destructive acts, it is impossible to measure how much they were actually motivated by their religious beliefs, or what that act of kindness or violence should be counted as worth.





I was referring more to organized religious lunacy like the Inquisition. Would the megalomaniacs behind it have found another motivating force / excuse / club to use on the masses? Quite possibly. But the fact is they seized on belief in the supernatural.

quote:

I suppose one could say that we should start with eliminating destructive dogmatism, but as long as their are unfounded spiritual beliefs, there will be the soil that the destructive dogmatism grows in.

I don't much care for most slippery slope arguments because they usually go both ways. You have conveniently ignored everything I said about how for people of certain psychological makeups it is possible that having zero spiritual beliefs could lead to equally destructive behaviors based on a nihilistic worldview. Thus, the slippery slope does slip the other way – it is possible that in an atheistic culture there will be the soil that the destructive nihilism grows in.




True enough. For some people religion or something else will become the excuse for their destructive behaviors. But if the belief in magic were to be eliminated, I think the majority of the currently religious would be just fine. And just maybe we could agree, I don't know, to teach science instead of superstition in science class, or that the phrase "I am the lord thy god" doesn't belong in our courthouses. Maybe then we could stop wasting our time on nonsense use that energy on real problems.

quote:
Do not assume that just because you can live with religious skepticism and still be a good and happy person that everyone else can too.



I guess I'm just an idealist.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  19:55:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Barbara:

tsk tsk tsk I would be very careful who I call a liar here.



Well since you are the only one in this thread who has shown yourself to be conpletely dishonest, how careful do we need to be? Or are you accusing someone here of lying? If so, who? And please provide evidence to back it up, just like the evidence that has been provided of your untruths.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/18/2006 :  20:16:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
As the Great George Costanza once said:

"It isn't a lie, if YOU beleive it."

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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