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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 03/18/2006 : 15:38:03
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Bill has started to hijack yet another discussion for a debate over naturalism vs. his version of theism. So I'm starting this thread in the hopes that the other discussion will stay on track. And 'cause I found this great quote about the meaning of life from Jewish comedian Jackie Mason:
Life has no meaning beyond this reality. But people keep searching for excuses. First there was reincarnation. Then refabrication. Now there's theory of life after amoebas, after death, between death, around death. Now you come back as a shirt, a pair of pants...People call it truth, religion; I call it insanity, the denial of death as the basic truth of life. "What is the meaning of life?" is a stupid question. Life just exists. You say to yourself, "I can't accept that I mean nothing so I have to find the meaning of life so that I shouldn't mean as little as I know I do." Subconsciously you know you're full of shit. I see life as a dance. Does a dance have to have meaning? You're dancing because you enjoy it.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 16:29:02 [Permalink]
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42! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 17:28:16 [Permalink]
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Given the number of species on this planet, and given all the things we could have been born as, including a nematode, I'd say that if we can sit and type and post on the Internet, and even consider something as silly as the meaning of life, we have already hit the jackpot as a life form on our little planet.
But some people always want more. Not content with being born to a species that is at the top of the food chain, they want to live forever.
Ultimately, we are germs on the side of a rock spinning in space around a fairly average star that exists near the edge of a fairly average galaxy among billions of galaxies, some much more interesting than our own. In the total scheme of things, we don't really matter at all. Meaning? Why should there be any meaning?
We have hit the jackpot on our little world and we should make the best of it. If you feel the need to make plans for eternity, go for it, but be careful or you may miss out on the wonders that this life has to offer. Lucky for many of us that there is so much to learn and to keep us busy that we don't really have the time to waste planning for an extremely unlikely existence in a future that includes the death of our universe…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2006 : 22:04:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Does a dance have to have meaning? You're dancing because you enjoy it.[/i]
That is the meaning. To enjoy.
It's sort of like, does one donate to a charity to help the poor or does it make one feel good to give. What is real altruism? One could go on like that with almost anything but what does it mean if we do? |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 00:36:31 [Permalink]
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| Considering that the average human is composed of 10 times more bacteria than human cells, I'd say that the meaning of life is to provide a hospitable environment for prokaryotes. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 01:00:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Considering that the average human is composed of 10 times more bacteria than human cells, I'd say that the meaning of life is to provide a hospitable environment for prokaryotes.
Hey, Hawks..... I just noticed you say you are in NZ. How cool!
I was there last year, or was it the year before..... I loose track of time. It's a wonderful country. Your PM, if it's the same one when I was there, sorry I forget her name, has grand ideas....about the environment. Hope you don't change your policies. It's a bit like California only 100 times better.
Now! THAT is the meaning of life, to live in NZ. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 02:51:26 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
Considering that the average human is composed of 10 times more bacteria than human cells, I'd say that the meaning of life is to provide a hospitable environment for prokaryotes.
Hey, Hawks..... I just noticed you say you are in NZ. How cool!
I was there last year, or was it the year before..... I loose track of time. It's a wonderful country. Your PM, if it's the same one when I was there, sorry I forget her name, has grand ideas....about the environment. Hope you don't change your policies. It's a bit like California only 100 times better.
Now! THAT is the meaning of life, to live in NZ.
NZ is truly beautiful. Some environmental work being done here is very godd (lots of national parks, for example) but some is less good (vehicle exhaust emission limits are laughable). NZ's "trademark" of being a clean, green country is probably only true because of the small population. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 05:51:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
42!
Aye, that is true!
Why life, the universe and everything even have to have a meaning (beyond 42, that is)? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 06:00:24 [Permalink]
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| I wish I was educated enough to come up with a good questionnaire, but most people who are "spiritual" or "religious" answer my questions with statements like, "what if this is all there is" or some variation of "I'd be immoral if not for..." or "Life wouldn't have much meaning." All telling me that they're creating the fantasy of god and the afterlife because they don't think very much of life or themselves, and they have to make up some fantasy to give themselves a false sense of worth. Worth, meaning, they're all fantasies. Life is just life. Enjoy it or not, it doesn't matter. Might as well enjoy it though. Life is more enjoyable if you do. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 03/19/2006 06:24:01 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 08:07:19 [Permalink]
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So again, I will ask the question that no one thus far has answered, but with a slight variation -- variety being the spice of life, or so it is said:
To it's owner, which life has the most meaning; the hog that gave up the pork chop or the human that ate it?
I'll say the human because he is cursed with sapience and is doomed to ponder such silliness, whereas the hog, if left to it's own devices, doesn't much care and thus is the wiser of the two.
As Siberia has shown, any meaning assigned to Life the Universe, and Everything is arbitrary and foolish due to a lack of confirmation, and '42!' is as good an answer as any. Indeed, it is better than most because it takes so little time to spell it out.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 11:23:12 [Permalink]
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Hawks wrote: quote:
Considering that the average human is composed of 10 times more bacteria than human cells, I'd say that the meaning of life is to provide a hospitable environment for prokaryotes.
I know you probably meant this as a joke, and it is funny. But to take it as a serious answer for a moment, the problem, of course, is that prokaryotes don't have conscious thoughts, and thus, they cannot give meaning to anything. We can. If we find meaning in providing a hospitable environment for prokaryotes, that does become meaningful.
Any sentient creature can give meaning to anything because meaning is composed of thought. When people say "life is meaningless", what they are really saying is "Life has no objective meaning." Doesn't seem like such a great tragedy when put that way. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2006 : 11:25:10 [Permalink]
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| They can think they give meaning, but the bacteria don't much give a shite, and neither does the rest of the universe. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 00:46:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So again, I will ask the question that no one thus far has answered, but with a slight variation -- variety being the spice of life, or so it is said:
To it's owner, which life has the most meaning; the hog that gave up the pork chop or the human that ate it?
I'll say the human because he is cursed with sapience and is doomed to ponder such silliness, whereas the hog, if left to it's own devices, doesn't much care and thus is the wiser of the two.
I do not eat pork.
Pigs are very intelligent animals. Smarter than dogs anyway and my dog is pretty damn smart.
Humans are not the smarter of anything. Just because they use tools? Big deal. Humans are like ants, they fall into line but then they scatter and get hysterical if something upsets them. Just look at some who post on this web site.
Yeah, pigs...... much smarter.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 01:01:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
NZ is truly beautiful. Some environmental work being done here is very godd (lots of national parks, for example) but some is less good (vehicle exhaust emission limits are laughable). NZ's "trademark" of being a clean, green country is probably only true because of the small population.
***The meaning of life is to get people off the Earth, they ruin everything.***
I thought the PM was trying to keep the population under control. Maybe I'm thinking of something else but it has something to do with making sure the beauty there isn't ruined by builders. I remember telling someone there not to turn it into another California. It's completely runied and awful here now. So over crowded and dirty.
You don't by any chance live in Auckland do you? I have a friend who owns a restaurant there. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2006 : 14:05:33 [Permalink]
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Our purpose is to reproduce.
The meaning in life is what every you decide it is.
Personally I think the meaning of life is 42, or 43 whatever it takes. |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2006 : 11:35:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Personally I think the meaning of life is 42, or 43 whatever it takes.
So, you're willing to go the extra mile? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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