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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  12:14:46  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I posted the thread at JREF forum thinking there were a number of BAUT members there. Not many people responded so far but maybe that's because there isn't much to say about it.

I don't know this particular moderator. Maybe someone here does? If so do you have a different impression of him? You'll have to go to the BAUT to get his name. I didn't write it down and can't even recall other than I know it wasn't someone I knew.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
12671 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  12:44:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
I left a response at the JREF forum. Sounds like bad moderation to me...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Free The West Memphis Three
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  13:09:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Thanks, I read it and I may take a matter of fact rule discussion approach when reinstated.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15821 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  14:08:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
You go, girl!

The position that BAUT is presently taking in its censorship and your suspension seems to tie the hands of scientists and medicos such that they cannot fight back against the political and religious forces that are attacking them these days. The "politics" you allegedly introduced seems to consist solely in using the name, Karl Rove. It was a completely neutral reference, politically, to illustrate that many battles involve the definition of terms. Even from the viewpoint of BAUT's "no politics or religion" rules, their response was nonsensical.

Of course, I would not want to ban such vitally central issues of our times as politics and religion from discussion. But that's their bone-headed decision to make. You, however, did not violate their silly-ass rules, and indeed have remained as polite as anyone could, while still holding to an opinion.

Indeed, a "formal" protest, when you are allowed to make one, is in order. As the Apostles John and Paul said in their Gospels, "Indicate precisely what you mean to say, yours sincerely, wasting away."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/20/2006 14:08:51
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 06/20/2006 :  17:47:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
...But that's their bone-headed decision to make. ...


Well, not really. It's always been the rule because when people get into those subjects they get into flame wars. There have been times where I appreciated the rule. It did make for a very civil forum for the longest time. Especially given the current political climate.

Funny thing is, the worst out of control flame wars I've had were on the FWIS forum which is an offshoot of BAUT. One person started FWIS to have those political and religious threads that we couldn't have on the BAUT. But the people running the forum side with each other with a Republican/Libertarian point of view. It's a lesson in how it feels to have the bulk of the board members not on your side. I notice it when we gang up on people here and I have empathy for the minority viewer sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

Phil has a bit more of a political view now which comes out on a regular basis in his blog. The original forum, the BABB (Bad Astronomy Bulletin Board) was meant to discuss science topics. It was not started with the goals or intentions that the other skeptical community boards have. But we've had plenty of discussions about the attacks on science including global warming and ID threads where some politics and religion were included. The wedge strategy has been discussed. The Discovery Institute, government denial of global warming, the ID court cases, have all been discussed. That will be the first thing I point out when I post there again. I know a quick search will turn up thread after thread with politics and religion in them. Phil even addressed the fact these were OK as long as they were tied to the science aspect of it.

I have been trying to point out to anyone who will listen that there is a science of communicating that we are not taking full advantage of. I've mentioned my little eye opening story before but here it is again. I was talking to the education department at the hospital I worked at discussing the fact that all the educating in the world wasn't decreasing the number of needle sticks, nor getting people to follow the proper protocol when the sticks occurred. The educator said to me, "It's a performance deficit, not a knowledge deficit." It was an 'aha!' moment. I'm sure people in the education field would call it a no brainer. But to some of us, we assume if you teach something, unless the person outright doesn't believe you or for whatever reason doesn't learn the material, that you have accomplished your goal. Trouble is all that "knowledge" goes through everyone's brain filter before settling in. If you find that all the knowledge you are imparting doesn't result in educated people, you have to reexamine the problem. Instead, the science community just keeps trying to impart the knowledge. ID vs evolution debates are a classic example. I've had past threads on it.

But the anti-science community has adopted all the science of communicating and persuading. They study it, they research it, they test it. And they kill at using it.

This is inspiring me to write a paper for the next Skepchick issue.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4780 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  10:45:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
In the BAUT banned users thread


beskeptical has been suspended for three days because of posting too much about religion and/or politics.


Methinks theres a new sheriff in town and he's bein heavy handed.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
12671 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  10:52:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

In the BAUT banned users thread


beskeptical has been suspended for three days because of posting too much about religion and/or politics.


Methinks theres a new sheriff in town and he's bein heavy handed.

Yeah, it just looks like bad moderation to me. Phil should really look at what his moderators are doing.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Free The West Memphis Three
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  10:58:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I PMed Phil via the skepchick forum when I posted the thread at JREF but I've had no reply so far. I know he's a busy guy. I'll likely wait a few days for a response from him before posting again at BAUT.

ValD, is there any discussion of my suspension on the banned thread and if so, how many people hate me?

Or, am I invisible?

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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Edited by - beskeptigal on 06/21/2006 11:20:11
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15821 Posts

Posted - 06/21/2006 :  14:50:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal



ValD, is there any discussion of my suspension on the banned thread and if so, how many people hate me?

Or, am I invisible?

I think "non-person" is the operative word. You have been airbrushed out of the group photos.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/21/2006 14:50:41
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2006 :  14:21:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Well, a thread came up on JREF that was so close to what I has said in the thread that was locked over at BAUT, I decided to post it and post this in the forum dealing with board rules. The rules thread has a link to the new thread I posted there.

Doubt I'll get any apology but it was nice a couple people are sticking up for me.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2006 :  21:49:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
How can you possibly discuss science today and not include politics?

Politics is trampling all over science, has entangled itself into the public perceptions of science, and continues to try to manipulate science for political ends.

So, are they limiting the discussion of science to purely technical matters over there now?

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2006 :  23:09:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

How can you possibly discuss science today and not include politics?

Politics is trampling all over science, has entangled itself into the public perceptions of science, and continues to try to manipulate science for political ends.

So, are they limiting the discussion of science to purely technical matters over there now?


I just lost my long reply to this. I can't repeat it right now. The short version is the BABB forum had the no politics rule long before the current political situation. It isn't such a bad thing but things are changing in the country. Phil Plait started posting his political comments on his blog and anyone can post that sort of thing there.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3831 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  10:24:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
For anyone interested, This thread has the follow up so far and it got more interesting. Seems I've been accused by half the moderators and defended by the other half. Now it was locked and we'll see what follows. Frankly, I may not post there after this anyway. I'm being called a liar by ToSeek, whom I had respected until now. I don't know who tinaa is, never heard of her until this.

I don't get to rebut the last post by ToSeek but it probably wouldn't make any difference. No matter what I say he keeps saying it isn't genuine or true. How do you respond to that? And I only posted his board examples to show my post was hardly the worst thing that's been up there and ToSeek starts on about my double standard. What? I had no objection to the posts I noted. I was showing they were the same.

There he is defending his post and he can't see the irony.

Hear it From the Troops themselves.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9441 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  12:28:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Having read the threads now, I must say I'm a bit disappointed in how the whole affair went down over at BAUT.

I made a few things over at the Skepticality Forum as a freshman (a few months old) moderator that I regret not doing differently/better, but nothing like this. The key is recognizing when the subject comes too close your own sore spot for you to keep your objectivity, in which case it's time to refer the matter to another moderator who has less emotions/ego invested in it.

I hope I perform my moderation duties adequately here on Skeptic Friends Network, and if I don't... please don't hesitate to let Kil or Dave know about it so they can set me straight. I would like to believe that everything that happens can be used as a learning experience that we might improve our performance. I certainly wouldn't like to end up like the BAUT-mods.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15821 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  12:57:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I find the BAUT "official" reactions disappointing as well, not so mention somewhat catty and disingenuous. I think you're seeing cases of people being given petty authority, then letting it go to their heads. They can become bullies, and may actually enjoy throwing their weight around. Give some folks a Mod's hammer, and pretty soon every problem looks like a troll nail to them.

I much prefer the gentle approach used by mods here, which encourages an intense, freewheeling, yet usually somewhat ordered, debate. (Mabby, you're doing a great job! )


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 09/05/2006 :  14:38:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
I have at least four people on my ignore list over there simply because they occasionally but cumulatively have derided Al Gore, Michael Moore, and "the French" without moderator warnings. Apparently, contemptuous mirth is permitted while simultaneously placing a more serious reply or correction closer to violation of the BAUT rules.

The BA's Blog however is more open to rebutting button pushing posts.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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