Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Community Forums
 General Discussion
 Einstein letters from 1915 unsealed
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2006 :  16:16:01  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
The private correspondence of Albert Einstein and his family have now been revealed. These letters from 1915 represent the last of Einstein's correspondence to be made public.

This seven-page article from Time magazine reveals some of the letters' contents, in perspective:
quote:

The Intimate Life of A. Einstein
Letters written during a tumultuous year and unsealed this week offer a rare glimpse inside the heart and mind of the 20th century's greatest genius

By WALTER ISAACSON


SECOND WIFE: Einstein with his cousin
and wife Elsa (pet name: Else), in 1921


The last remaining trove of Albert Einstein's personal family letters is being opened to the public this week. They had been closely held by his stepdaughter Margot Einstein, who decreed that they remain sealed for 20 years after her death. Some of the letters are being published by Princeton University Press in the 10th volume produced by the Einstein Papers Project at Caltech, and they are a revelation. "Einstein's private correspondence refutes the simplistic view of him as an isolated, remote man who immersed himself in his work at the expense of human contact," says general editor Diana Kormos Buchwald. That is nowhere more true than in the tense months between April and December 1915, when his family life was unraveling and he was racing--under brutal competitive pressure--to complete his general theory of relativity.

. . .





Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/09/2006 16:18:42

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2006 :  21:24:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
After seeing this PBS program, I can't forgive the man for dumping the woman who helped him with his work, taking credit for everything as if she contributed nothing then moving on with some new flame (not that Elsa looks like a trophy wife in that photo but she does look younger). Some people say there's no way Einstein's first wife contributed anything to the Relativity Theory but I've seen too many other historical accounts of other women losing credit to some unscrupulous man for the work really done by the woman. We'll probably never know for sure.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/11/2006 21:24:47
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  05:05:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
So, is Einstein male until proven innocent?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  12:07:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Well I'm just a tad touchy on the subject of women in history held back by society's gender discrimination. Einstein supposedly failed math as a kid. For all we know he took credit for Mileva's Theory of Relativity. And then to dump her when he got famous...

Rosalind Franklin never received the credit she was due at the time Crick and Watson took her work one step further and claimed full credit for discovering DNA. They would not have succeeded had they not had her work and they probably wouldn't have gotten away with it had she been a he.
Go to Top of Page

Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  12:36:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Einstein did not fail maths as a kid. He failed other subjects in the liberal arts, but he excelled in maths.

I went looking around for sites purporting this myth, such as this one, which is quite hilarious on first glance, but rather disturbing upon further reflection.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 07/12/2006 12:41:56
Go to Top of Page

Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  12:41:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Well I'm just a tad touchy on the subject of women in history held back by society's gender discrimination. Einstein supposedly failed math as a kid. For all we know he took credit for Mileva's Theory of Relativity. And then to dump her when he got famous...
While I have no idea about his first wife's role in the development of the ToR, it's unlikely that Einstein didn't play a major role in it. Indeed, according to the Einstein wiki entry, he most certainly excelled at math.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  13:31:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Well I'm just a tad touchy on the subject of women in history held back by society's gender discrimination. Einstein supposedly failed math as a kid. For all we know he took credit for Mileva's Theory of Relativity. And then to dump her when he got famous...

Rosalind Franklin never received the credit she was due at the time Crick and Watson took her work one step further and claimed full credit for discovering DNA. They would not have succeeded had they not had her work and they probably wouldn't have gotten away with it had she been a he.

I don't blame you for being touchy. There have been plenty of examples of men taking credit for the work of women. But there ought to be real evidence presented against any particular person being accused of such intellectual theft. "We'll probably never know for sure" is not evidence.

Simply put, men are not all from the same mold, nor are women.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/12/2006 13:31:55
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  13:32:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I stand corrected on the math myth.

Tsk tsk now, I didn't say your man hero stole a woman's work, I only said, "for all we know". The truth is we will likely never know what Mileva's role if any was in Einstein's work, but I think it's safe to say if she did contribute anything history might easily be ignoring it.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  13:44:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

Einstein did not fail maths as a kid. He failed other subjects in the liberal arts, but he excelled in maths.

I went looking around for sites purporting this myth, such as this one, which is quite hilarious on first glance, but rather disturbing upon further reflection.

Very disturbing site indeed, with its anti-semitism:
quote:
This front page article in which Einstein gave an "emphatic denial" regarding the idea of practical applications for the "energy of the atom" demonstrates even further that this jew is a "feeble minded ... moron"
Typical Nazi fare. Jews presented as conniving morons, who control the banks and world Communism.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

Stargirl
Skeptic Friend

USA
94 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  14:11:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Stargirl a Private Message
beskeptigal

Whether or not Mileva helped Einstein is a matter of debate but she certainly was no dummy in fact she was quit smart.

If it gives you any solace in their divorce decree Mileva demanded and received the monies that Einstein would later, (years later) receive in conjunction with his Noble Prize.

I remember reading that in I think it was The Life and Times of Albert Einstein.
Even though I admire Einstein I got kind of a kick out of it too.

If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him - Voltaire
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  15:26:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

I stand corrected on the math myth.

Tsk tsk now, I didn't say your man hero stole a woman's work, I only said, "for all we know". The truth is we will likely never know what Mileva's role if any was in Einstein's work, but I think it's safe to say if she did contribute anything history might easily be ignoring it.

I have both "man heroes" and "woman heroes" in science, B., though I don't raise any of them to the height of gods. I'd be interested to see if Mileva herself even suggested that Einstein took credit for her work. All I've seen is circumstantial stuff, innuendo, and suppositions.

Here, of all places, we should see evidence for extraordinary claims. Extraordinary evidence, not just unevidenced tarring of Einstein for the sins of other males. Your statement, "I think it's safe to say if she did contribute anything history might easily be ignoring it" is conjecture. It even seems to imply a male conspiracy to protect Einstein's reputation. Couldn't it be that "history" is simply unaware of such theft because there is no evidence for it?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  19:33:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
There is a wealth of good, reliable information on the life of Albert Einstein. You just need to look beyond the internet for a lot of it. Several biographies are available, as well as his published letters and some memoirs. Not all of these paint him in a favorable light, but none say that someone else came up with either Special or General Relativity. Did he have help? Yes, of course! He was a collaborative person, even as a patent clerk.

If you want to talk about a woman who got the shaft, read about Lise Meitner. She collaborated with Otto Hahn for 30 years and got royally screwed out of the Nobel Prize for chemistry in 1945. I never heard of anyone who did so much, get so little recognition.

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  19:58:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by McQ

There is a wealth of good, reliable information on the life of Albert Einstein. You just need to look beyond the internet for a lot of it. Several biographies are available, as well as his published letters and some memoirs. Not all of these paint him in a favorable light, but none say that someone else came up with either Special or General Relativity. Did he have help? Yes, of course! He was a collaborative person, even as a patent clerk.

If you want to talk about a woman who got the shaft, read about Lise Meitner. She collaborated with Otto Hahn for 30 years and got royally screwed out of the Nobel Prize for chemistry in 1945. I never heard of anyone who did so much, get so little recognition.


Good grief! Lise Meitner is indeed a good example of being screwed out of recognition. Reading the Wikipedia article on Meitner makes this abundantly clear.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/13/2006 01:06:49
Go to Top of Page

Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1989 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  20:22:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message
Have you seen this site?....

http://www.einstein.caltech.edu/

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Go to Top of Page

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2006 :  20:24:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
There is a woman who did more for science and received less acknowledgement than Lise Meitner, although unfortunately her name and exactly what she contributed have been lost to history.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Go to Top of Page

Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/13/2006 :  09:03:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
And, to balance things, there's always Ada Lovelace, who receives the credit, when it was unlikely she ever did anything.

(further info shall come when I get time.)

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.16 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000