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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2006 : 17:10:49
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I had trouble deciding whether to put this in general discussion, politics or media. I chose media 'cause it is an attempt by an organization to gain media attention for a cause.
And a very lame attempt.
http://www.troopshomefast.org/article.php?list=type&type=144
This be Code Pink's Troops Home Fast campaign - a bunch of dingbats who don't eat for a little while and then compare themselves to Ghandi. And somehow this is supposed to impress anyone to push for American troops in Iraq coming home?
I don't even like real fasting for peace. To me it is hypocritical, pseudo-pacifism. Committing violence against oneself is still committing violence. It's not nearly as morally bad as hurting someone else, but IMHO it's still bad.
But this isn't even real fasting. When Ghandi did he was ready to die for his cause. That's why people gave a shit. Who gives a shit if some women don't eat for 24 hours or any other short-term amount of time?
I wonder how many women signed up for this silly campaign are doing the fast as an excuse to be anorexic. I can be an activist for peace and finally fit into my old jeans, without lifting a finger or even thinking or reading anything! Hooray! Thanks Code Pink!
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 17:51:34 [Permalink]
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I once talked to the leader of a group, whose name I can't remember, but they're the people who shut down the city of Philadelphia in an attempt to stop the war. I think it was the Thomas Merton Center.
Anyway, after being careful to let the group know it was not a criticism, as our very small, very ineffectual group was looking for a way to make a difference I asked them why. To me, civil disobedience is about disobeying laws that don't make sense. What were they protesting? Traffic?
He said that he wouldn't have picked this tactic himself, that it was a group decision, but they felt they had to do something to let people know how they felt.
I think it's fine to have a sense of humor about all of this, but people are flawed, and they try to figure out how to do what they know how to do.
I agree that fasting makes no sense, short term, long term. I agree that stopping traffic makes no sense, short term, long term.
But what are we to do? Write letters to people who no longer care? Write letters to the editor talking about how Bush made a "mistake?"
People do what they know how to do. You know how to fix the problem? Do it. You want to laugh at how the rest of us fumble through it? Fair enough. Seriously. It is funny. People are funny. But while you're doing it, teach us by example. What should I do? Protesting this war isn't just about pacifism as you well know. Should I buy a rifle and shoot anyone who supports these murders, maybe take it down to the White House?
This is not a criticism, it is a plea. What do you want people to do?
quote:
Cesar Chavez, one of the U.S.' most important Latino leaders of the 20th century, led a hunger strike in 1968 to support migrant grape workers who were demanding a raise from the dollar-an-hour they were being paid. The 25-day fast, in conjunction with many other tactics—marches, boycotts, strikes, picketing, and consumer education—caused the workers to achieve not only better pay but health care benefits. In 1989, Chavez engaged in a "Fast for Life" that sought to expose the dangers of pesticide use to farm workers and their children. After 36 days, the 61-year-old Chavez passed the hunger strike to Rev. Jesse Jackson, symbolically handing him the small metal cross he had carried throughout his fast. (Chavez was a devout Catholic, and his hunger strikes, like Gandhi's, were highly spiritual in nature.) He then broke bread with the children he was fasting to protect from pesticide poisoning—a highly publicized event that won hearts nationwide. Over the following months, the rolling fast coursed through celebrities, workers, and communities. These fasts, among other successful campaigns, made the United Farm Workers one of the most powerful labor groups in history.
Rolling hunger strikes like this one are useful because they call attention to an issue based on numbers of participants rather than length of a single person's fast. In China, hundreds of activists and supporters are currently participating in a rolling hunger strike that started in February of 2006. According to Amnesty International, the strike seeks to “draw attention to recent beatings and detentions of human rights activists and lawyers who … defend them.” Hundreds of people continue to participate in 24-hour fasts, passing the fast, relay-style, on to the next participant after completion. In February of 2006, the Chinese government cracked down on the fasters; some were beaten, placed on house arrest, kidnapped or jailed. In response, tens of thousands of supporters in the international community have taken up a solidarity rolling 24-hour hunger strike in Asia, Australia, Europe and North America.
Over the past year, hunger strikers have fasted to protest the militarization of the U.S. border, water privatization and much more.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 17:59:37 [Permalink]
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 18:14:31 [Permalink]
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Cute sign. And true. That's the way it's supposed to be.
Obedience can be more criminal than disobedience. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 18:15:47 [Permalink]
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I can at the very least respect a real fast. I do believe that people have a right to stop eating to make a point, and that sometimes this tactic makes a powerful and effective statement.
During my Navy service in the mid-sixties, I fasted for ten days to protest lack of action on my conscientious objector application. I consumed only water and sugar-free sodas. (The first week was Hunger City for me, but after that I lost my appetite, but had little energy.) I lost only seven pounds, oddly enough. The Navy had the ship's Corpsman check me regularly, and I was repeatedly told that the Navy was convinced that I was eating normally on the sly. At no time was I ordered to eat.
Seeing no effect upon the Navy from my fast, I ended it. I had done no noticeable damage to myself, ate a hearty meal, and was immediately up to snuff again. I am probably not courageous enough to "fast unto death," even if I felt it was for a good cause. In fact, I remain very uncomfortable about that tactic. But I do respect it. Anyone putting their lives on the line is making a strong statement which others should at least consider. Was my own fast a good idea? I still don't know, but I do know it didn't work for me, not amounting to either a powerful nor an effective statement.
A "rolling fast" is merely a joke, and deserves to be treated as one. I often eat nothing at all some days, simply because I'm not hungry. Being a tiny bit hungry is hardly a moral statement, however righteous it might make one feel.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/28/2006 18:18:23 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 20:28:40 [Permalink]
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Half wrote: quote:
I am probably not courageous enough to "fast unto death," even if I felt it was for a good cause. In fact, I remain very uncomfortable about that tactic. But I do respect it.
That's pretty much how I feel. To me this Pink Code campaign is a joke because of the way it is advertised. On the friggin' website they tell people it's fine just to do a day fast for the symbolic meaning. It loses all credibility. I don't think one has to necessarily be willing to fast until death, but unless the suffering is noticable and worth taking seriously, no one will take it seriously. And frankly, I think they are a bit full of themselves to be putting Ghandi on their banner advertising the whole thing on their website since he was doing a literal fast unto death if necessary.
As for the civil disobediance sign, I sort of feel like rolling my eyes at that. At best it is a social norm to eat, and your friends and family will get on your ass about it before government authorities ever will. So to call it civil disobediance is a little too much for me since they aren't actually breaking any laws. It worked for women's suffrage because the women were locked up in cells and so authorities were already responsible for their health - which is why they were force fed. It worked for Ghandi because he was a national hero. And it works in other situations - I think Half's story is very respectable and I see how it could have made a difference and was definitely worth trying. But what Code Pink is doing will not sway anyone who isn't already on the anti-war side. At least that's my two cents. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2006 : 20:40:13 [Permalink]
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While the fast may or may not have been forceful, they did get attention with one member yelling at the Iraqi Prime Minister's Congressional address. The look on his face was disgust but then:quote:
the Latest News! July 27, 2006: Members of the Iraqi Parliament have invited the fasters to meet with them in Amman, Jordan next week to discuss the Iraqi Reconciliation Plan! More to come. Also today, two CODEPINKers were removed for interrupting John Bolton's confirmation hearing. July 26, 2006: Medea Benjamin arrested for disrupting Iraqi Prime Minister's Congressional address, CNN reports: "At one point, the speech was interrupted by a protester who called out, "Iraqis want the troops to leave. July 25, 2006: On behalf of U.S. Anti-War Coalition fasters request urgent meeting with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al-Maliki to discuss reconciliation plan, and publish open letter in a leading Iraqi newspaper - Assabah Al-Jadid. Don't forget to check out a number of solidarity messages we have received in the past few weeks!
I can't condemn anti-war activists no matter how ineffective unless some action hurts the cause. The core of this group has been protesting the war, loudly, from the start.
Code Pink stands out more than Women in Black who use the silent approach. My neighbors have been standing in Women in Black events also since the start of the war. A couple of them are on a corner downtown literally every Sat. It boggles the mind to think about it because this is so middle class suburbia here. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/28/2006 20:42:53 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 00:35:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
As for the civil disobediance sign, I sort of feel like rolling my eyes at that. At best it is a social norm to eat, and your friends and family will get on your ass about it before government authorities ever will. So to call it civil disobediance is a little too much for me since
No one called it civil disobedience. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 00:46:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
quote:
Originally posted by MarfloxAs for the civil disobediance sign, I sort of feel like rolling my eyes at that. At best it is a social norm to eat, and your friends and family will get on your ass about it before government authorities ever will. So to call it civil disobediance is a little too much for me since
No one called it civil disobedience.
Yeah, to be clear, the sign was posted in response to Gorgo's talk of the Philly traffic shut-downs, and it was meant as a joke.
As far as Marf not getting it, well, unfortunately that's par for the course. She doesn't actually possess a normally functioning sense of humor.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/29/2006 00:48:35 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 01:58:07 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't use the picture of dead people on my web site unless that dead person actually founded the organization. I don't know. Maybe it's because they identify with his nonviolent principles. That may be a reasonable use. I think it would be a good idea to find out why they did before I'd criticize it too much. Their use of fasting may be symbolic and have some kind of "spiritual" meaning to them as well, I don't know. Again, I think it would be a good idea to ask before I criticize them. Maybe you have. I don't think you said that you did.
What they are doing may be ineffectual and a "joke." When I lived in Ohio, we had a group one day of about 8 people on a street corner. Some places and times had more, but often we'd have very few. That's probably a joke too. Stopping traffic is probably a joke.
I never participated in a prayer vigil, but I imagine those are jokes as well. Civil rights marches were a joke when they started too. Bunch of uppity colored folks trying to take advantage of decent white Christian folk.
I'd rather be a joke and do something weak and ineffectual because I'm weak and stupid than not do anything. Being human is kind of a joke, really. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2006 : 02:08:08 [Permalink]
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This is what I remember about hunger strikes. I lived close to Willard, Ohio, where Billy Inmon had a car dealership. I knew him because I won 100 bucks or so from some contest he ran. Anyway, Governor Voinovich appointed him to some job as part of running the Ohio State Fair. Billy evidently screwed that up and got fired, so Billy decided to run for gov. Voinovich wouldn't debate him, so Billy went on a hunger strike.
Here's the News of the Weird Description of that:
quote:
1995 -- In August, Ohio gubernatorial candidate Billy Inmon collapsed and had to be hospitalized after a 27-day hunger strike outside the Capitol in Columbus. He was trying to get incumbent George Voinovich to debate him, but Voinovich never did. However, 18 days into the strike, a man protesting Inmon's anti-gay policies urinated on Inmon's tent, provoking Inmon to point a gun at him.
http://www.newsoftheweird.com/ |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/29/2006 02:12:02 |
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