Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Creation/Evolution
 Is there hope for Kansas?
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  09:19:07  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
Elections in Kansas for the school board today. Looks like things are heating up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/01/us/01evolution.html?_r=1&ref=us&oref=slogin

quote:
The chairman of the board, Dr. Steve E. Abrams, a veterinarian and the leader of the conservative majority, said few of the opposition candidates were really moderates. “They're liberals,” said Dr. Abrams, who is not up for re-election.

He said that the new science curriculum in no way opened the door to intelligent design or creationism and that any claim to the contrary “is an absolute falsehood.”

“We have explicitly stated that the standards must be based on scientific evidence,” Dr. Abrams said, “what is observable, measurable, testable, repeatable and unfalsifiable.”

In science, he said, “everything is supposedly tentative, except the teaching of evolution is dogma.”



"observable, measurable, testable, repeatable and unfalsifiable" Shouldn't that be falsifiable? Like evolution an't?

The only reason they want to get rid of evolution is to pass their bible thumping Genisis off as science. Can't they see how thin their lies are getting?

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  09:26:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
I think since he said "unfalsifiable" gives a good indication where his mindset is...

I wonder what he would say about teaching e=m*(c*c)...is it dogma also? (apologies I don't know how to do superscript)

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 08/01/2006 09:31:28
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2006 :  13:46:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Kansas voters have kicked the religious conservatives off the school board before.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  03:42:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Smackdown!
quote:
Evolution Foes Lose Their Edge on Kansas Board
The state education panel appears to be split 6-4 between supporters of Darwin's theory and advocates of teaching intelligent design.
By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer
August 2, 2006


DENVER — Foes of Kansas' controversial science standards that recommend questioning evolution appeared to have ousted one of its most vocal supporters Tuesday night, paving the way for the state board of education to reverse the policy.

The conservative school board last year passed the standards, which recommend teaching alternative theories to evolution, by a 6-4 vote. Moderates challenged three of the conservatives in the Republican primary but were unable to oust two. In western Kansas though, challenger Sally Cauble appeared to have defeated incumbent Connie Morris.

Cauble was leading 54% to 46% with more than 90% of the votes tallied.

Foes of the science standards did pick up an open seat that had previously been held by a conservative, and the lone Democratic incumbent beat back a primary challenge. If Cauble's lead holds up it would give moderates a 6-4 majority on the board, enough to reverse the science standards.

The Discovery Institute cretins are having a sumptious meal of sour grapes.... and I think we can expect a lot more piss & moan from them as time goes by.
quote:
John West, a senior fellow at the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, which advocates questioning evolution in schools and funded radio ads defending Kansas' science standard, said the outcome of the election would not stop people from learning about what he called the "growing controversy" over evolution. "Efforts to censor that aren't going to work," he said.

We all know that it ain't over yet, but it's certainly looking good.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  08:20:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
So, Kansas may overturn a stupid policy again.

One thing that kind of bums me out about Kansas is that some of the parents didn't openly challenge the new guidelines in court as was done in Dover Pennsylvania. Especially after the Ruling in Dover, since there was a powerful precedent set. Throwing the bums out is good. But allowing them no future attempts to redefine science or allow an un-evidenced and highly speculative hypothesis to pass for scientific theory, or any goofballs objections to any particular of science to be taught along side of the science that is science should be permanently stopped.

As it stands, if a new Kansas board does overturn the incredibly stupid definition of science that Kansas has adopted, there is still room for an act three, and four, and so on and so on…


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  11:50:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
It is a long way from over, but at least it is brighter today.

Still, your right Kil. They really need to settle the issue once and for all. Problem is, does either side trust the Kansas courts?

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  12:21:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
One again, this state is "Bleeding Kansas," though at least this time the fight over Kansas is not (yet) one with guns and bullets. Prior to the Civil War (between 1854 and 1858), Kansas was host to a series of vicious guerrilla battles over whether Kansas Territory would become a free or a slave state.

The Kansas-Nebraska Act, passed by Congress in 1854, had set up the conditions for Bleeding Kansas, by allowing the citizens of Kansas to decide for themselves whether Kansas would be free or slave. Like the modern idea of letting students hear "both sides" of the "scientific controversy" over evolution, this freedom of choice over slavery was a disaster. Armed pro-slavery Southerners marched into Kansas by the thousands. Abolitionist John Brown formed an armed force and marched into Kansas as well. Both sides terrorized the territory and committed atrocities.

History never really repeats itself, but sometimes there are startling parallels. Neither slavery nor the teaching of religious dogma in school should be matters of "choice." Some choices only create havoc. Let's hope Kansas never bleeds again.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  13:52:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

So, Kansas may overturn a stupid policy again.

One thing that kind of bums me out about Kansas is that some of the parents didn't openly challenge the new guidelines in court as was done in Dover Pennsylvania. Especially after the Ruling in Dover, since there was a powerful precedent set. Throwing the bums out is good. But allowing them no future attempts to redefine science or allow an un-evidenced and highly speculative hypothesis to pass for scientific theory, or any goofballs objections to any particular of science to be taught along side of the science that is science should be permanently stopped.

As it stands, if a new Kansas board does overturn the incredibly stupid definition of science that Kansas has adopted, there is still room for an act three, and four, and so on and so on…



The lack of a court decision in Kansas to ban the recent Board rules about the teaching of evolution is a problem, but may be remedied in the future.

In the meantime, the defeat of the anti-evolutionists in the primary election is a remarkable turn of the weather-vane. These are pro-evolution Republicans who have replaced the theonazis. Even the voters within the Republican Party in this Bible Belt state have apparently had enough of the fundies. If Republicans in Kansas want to put an end to this Creationist fundy nonsense, Democratic and Independent voters elsewhere must be even more ready to say, "enough, already!" Not a bad sign for the nation as a whole, as we look towards the later election battles this year and in 2008.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  14:35:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
are pro-evolution Republicans who have replaced the theonazis


We hope. I would not be surprised if they are not, but just said they were to get elected.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  15:39:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
are pro-evolution Republicans who have replaced the theonazis


We hope. I would not be surprised if they are not, but just said they were to get elected.

I doubt it, but if this happened, it wouldn't be the first time. Fundies have run "stealth candidates" in local district school board elections for many years, in an attempt to get prayer and Creationism into schools, notably in California. By not stating their religious agendas up front, some of these candidates have been elected unopposed. On the other hand, these candidates did not claim to support evolution or separation of church and state.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.12 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000