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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  12:16:23  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Just thought Id do a thread on Alchoholics Anonymous(was on South Park last night), A group not affiliated with any sect or religion, so they say. Also a group often assigned to those who commit alcohol related crimes.

A quick review of the "Twelve Steps" of the program...

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
--

Heres my one step program, strange you think AA would have added this one.

1)STOP DRINKING!


"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  12:25:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
That's rational thinking, and rational thinking is no friend of Bill!

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  14:10:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Though all the God stuff, which comprises most of this list, is simply self-negating nonsense to me, I do respect the ideas of making amends to the injured parties, and of making a fearless ethical inventory of oneself. But Big Papa's Short List will do quite nicely.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  14:41:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
Change the words "alcohol" to "sin" and "alcoholic" to "sinner" and this is the path to becoming born again. Hallelujah!


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/03/2006 14:42:17
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  19:25:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I remember when I first heard the real story behind the AA from Penn and Teller on Bullshit! They read off that list, and I thought they were just making it up. I had to actually go to the AA website to believe it was real.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  19:43:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message
I had a staff member who was a member of AA and who provided me with the text in order to "better understand" him.

The worst thing is that they have it set up so that he will never be independant from them. He was deperately afraid, and had been convinced, that the second he started thinking in any other than the prescribed way, he would fall back into drinking.Under no circumstances would he ever give himself any credit for anything.

It is the replacement of one addiction for another. The illness is not cured, just redirected.

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  10:43:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
AA refuses to release statistics on their program. Probably because they have a recidivism rate approaching 100%.

Their goal, obviously (to me anyway) is religious recruitment. They prey upon people who are vulnerable, often desperate.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  11:52:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
An old thread on AA.with lots of duplicate posts, for some reason.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 08/09/2006 11:53:56
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  12:11:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I tried to read through that thread, but its just people saying the same thing over an over again.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  12:37:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Filthy's story and some of the links are interesting.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  15:09:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
I've been to AA meetings as part of nursing training (really ) It's up to the group and maybe West Coast differs from Bible Belt but religion is pretty much left out. The higher power thing is sometimes just ignored. I've never seen a group make religion or trusting in a god part of the actual program.


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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  22:38:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Well, even if you totally remove religion from AA, I'd still like to see some statistics.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  22:50:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
be, you didn't happen to ask them what they thought of the actual 12 steps, did you?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2006 :  08:45:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

I've been to AA meetings as part of nursing training (really ) It's up to the group and maybe West Coast differs from Bible Belt but religion is pretty much left out. The higher power thing is sometimes just ignored. I've never seen a group make religion or trusting in a god part of the actual program.




This reminds me of certain Boy Scout troops that absolutely ignore the official policy of the BSOA. Some do allow atheists, gays and you name it. How they get away with that I have no idea, but they exist because my son was briefly in such a troop. It was not until we (me and the troop leaders) were clear on how they operated their troop that I let Zack join…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2006 :  10:11:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Im sure that is a dont ask dont tell issue with the higher-ups in BSOA, no doubt they would take issue if it were outed so to speak.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2006 :  22:27:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
When it comes to treating alcoholism, there are several camps and some do better in one than another. All AA is is group support but it works for some people. And it can depend a lot on the group itself which is quite variable. I don't think the 12 steps are critical to the process. Steps, yes, but they aren't quite as specific as written.


Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/11/2006 22:27:45
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