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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2006 :  22:34:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

...

Heres my one step program, strange you think AA would have added this one.

1)STOP DRINKING!



Were it that easy, BPM...

Am. Council on Alcoholism

U of Pittsburgh Medical Center; alcoholism treatment options

NIH alcoholism site

Helpguide -> Expert, non-commercial information on mental health issues


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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2006 :  05:21:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
No one said that sticking to decisions was easy, but ultimately, it is a decision. Regardless of the underlying causes, what one who drinks too much ultimately has to do is decide to stop drinking and then stop drinking.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2006 :  12:56:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Deciding to quit of course matters, but my comment was that addiction is much more complex than merely a decision.
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lpecucci
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2006 :  11:30:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit lpecucci's Homepage Send lpecucci a Private Message
I went to one AA meeting with a friend of mine (he had to go...court ordered,of course)....I know non-alcoholics arent supposed to be there (but hey,I LOVE drinkin' so maybe I passed as a potential victim of AA,haha!).....

It was wild how after roughly 5 minutes they went straight to the higher power thing,and the give yourself over thing...and all i could think of was "cult,cult,CULT!!!"...how theyve managed to pass this off as a legit organization (& get people into doing it BY COURT ORDER!)is beyond me...

oh yeah,and they also must have some sort of rule that everyone entering has to have at least 2 packs of smokes with them & they MUST be consumed by meeting's end.....

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2006 :  16:36:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by lpecucci
oh yeah,and they also must have some sort of rule that everyone entering has to have at least 2 packs of smokes with them & they MUST be consumed by meeting's end.....

Replacing one drug with another, be it spiritual in nature or physical. If you can wean yourself off by gradually shifting to less powerful, addicting, and devastating drugs, then there's hope for recovery.

Smoking isn't as bad as drinking, so they were going in the right direction.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  09:47:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Well actaully in terms of deaths Id say Smoking kicks Drinkings ass, However those partaking are far less annoying/dangerous to others when they are smoking as opposed to drinking.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  09:55:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message

Scientifically proven.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 08/28/2006 09:59:23
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9680 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  10:29:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Well actaully in terms of deaths Id say Smoking kicks Drinkings ass, However those partaking are far less annoying/dangerous to others when they are smoking as opposed to drinking.

That was what I meant, I'm sorry I didn't manage to get that through.
While smoking, a person is a far less threat to the lives of others than drinking.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Antigone
New Member

44 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2006 :  15:48:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Antigone a Private Message
I'v been to a few AA meetings. Its amazing how you MUST think, act, do, and say everything the others do or they say you aren't "working the steps" and you are 'unhealthy.' Pretty scary. They try to convince people to get off meds that are needed or recommended by a doctor (mostly psyciatric and pain meds). Its ... quite interesting to watch their methods.
And someone asked about stats...they almost always brought it up themselves what the 'stats' were. The 'old-timers' (as they called themselves) always reminded the 'new-comers' that "only 1 out of ten make it."
If those stats are true, I think the reason for it is the alienation one feels when they don't follow the cult's ... I mean the 'Program's' ... strict rules. You are yelled at or talked to like a kid by someone convinced you will die if you don't follow THEIR way. If you don't like that kind of thing you leave and never come back, and left convinced that there is no other way.
Go to a few meeting and pretend to have a problem to test it out for yourself. Their methods are ... religious!

Mortui non dolent
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2006 :  18:09:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I think both the AA approach, and the "just quit" approach are missing the mark. A real program to end any addiction should probably include these kinds of elements:

1. Getting the addict away from the milieu in which he was addicted, including "enablers."

2. Strong social support in some kind of group setting.

3. Professional, scientifically-evidenced medical treatment, including drugs, when and if deemed appropriate.

4. The determination of the addict to quit, while realizing it probably won't be easy.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2006 :  22:58:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Well actaully in terms of deaths Id say Smoking kicks Drinkings ass, However those partaking are far less annoying/dangerous to others when they are smoking as opposed to drinking.

Not if you count the real toll of alcohol. You have to include the fact it is synergistic with smoking and other carcinogens which causes additional cancers, the accident toll including more than just auto crashes such as drowning, the related murders and suicides, and you can throw in risky behavior like sex with the girl from the bar which I think we can safely assume has resulted in at least some cases of HIV.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  00:09:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Latest Yahoo news, AA may prevent murders.


Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/25/2006 00:10:13
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  00:32:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Latest Yahoo news, AA may prevent murders.


Or maybe the murder rate during that period declined due to:
Changing demographics (a smaller proportion of the population in the high crime age bracket.
More restrictions on firearms during that period.
Better resoucres for women in violent relationships - women's shelters etc.
Better trauma care and EMS.

Can you say Post Hoctor Proc?

I also noticed the study ended in 1991. I wonder what happened after then?
I think I can prove that the replacement of carburation with fuel injection has resulted in a reduction in the murder rate in Ontario.



"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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