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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2006 : 13:36:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
No, I don't remember the dingo case.
I think it's the case on which the movie A Cry in the Dark is based on. A child gets taken by a dingo, but the family got the blame. (Good movie by the way, you should rent it)
Edited to add:
Follow the link to IMDB, and read the trivia.
Or Wikipedia... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 08/17/2006 13:41:16 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 14:20:45 [Permalink]
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If you are getting questioned by the police, and you start to feel as if they are counting you as a suspect, then you shut up and lawyer up. You do this if you are guilty, and you do it if you are innocent. The large majority of murders are committed by people who know the victim, including immediate family. Most people know that, so it only make sense to lawyer up and shut up when the questions start making you feel like the cops think you did it.
Did this guy do it? To early to say. Anything you say right now is nothing but speculation.
Personally I fail to understand how some of these murders manage to become big-news. Its tragic, it sucks, and we are all glad it didn't happen to us... but beyond that, I don't get the morbid fascination.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 19:57:35 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I recall reading about the dingo case a few years ago -- A dingo actually did it, but I don't remember the details.
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There is yet another question in this. Why did HomeLand Security get involved in a local murder case -- an everyday occurance? Is the admuinistration again trying to clog up the news to fog over their incompentence?
We shall see.
I would guess if Homeland Security was in on the arrest they just want the publicity for their sorry asses.
Eeek, filthy is rubbing off on me. 
Re the Dingo case, I read an awful lot on that one and I am convinced from what I read, the Dingos did kill the baby. Of course, one never knows how much detail and how distorted or not it is when reading about such cases. I saw none of the visible cues from the Mom that indicated she was lying. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/17/2006 20:00:08 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 20:14:32 [Permalink]
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FYI on detecting lying by visual cues:
Studies indicate that certain signs used when speaking...
How to Detect Lies
People literally nod yes when saying no and vice versa when lying. They smile or sort of smirk when relating events that should be tragic such as their child's death and so on. I have read a lot about these cues, the research supporting their validity and have looked for the cues with various cases like the OJ case. The cues are there and they are detectable. And I have looked at cases where a child was missing and made a judgment which was later shown to be correct so it isn't just looking at OJ after you know the evidence.
Susan Smith was very hard to read. She was one case that where lying in her initial interviews was hard to detect. Conde Rice is hard to read because her head bobs all over the place up and down and back and forth though once in a while she clearly nods yes while saying no. Bush smirks all the time as well and it's hard to know if he is lying or just an idiot. I think Cheney believes his lies to the point he also gives few cues he is lying.
OJ and the Ramseys had all the classic cues of lying. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 20:19:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
If you are getting questioned by the police, and you start to feel as if they are counting you as a suspect, then you shut up and lawyer up. You do this if you are guilty, and you do it if you are innocent. The large majority of murders are committed by people who know the victim, including immediate family. Most people know that, so it only make sense to lawyer up and shut up when the questions start making you feel like the cops think you did it....
Not everyone worries when the police look at them as suspects in their own child's disappearance. You might want to look at what John Walsh had to say about being a suspect. He said you tell the cops to do everything they need to to rule out yourself (and spouse or whoever) so they can get on with looking elsewhere. Actually, that's what most parents not involved in a disappearance do. There would be a few innocent people who would be suspicious enough of the police to shut up as you say, but I doubt it is the norm. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 20:27:52 [Permalink]
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Latest news, I am further confident in my assessment the confessor is mentally ill. The fact he had written Patsy Ramsey and no one arrested him or tested his DNA then is one clue. But the biggest one had been confirmed, the ex-wife, who may just hate the guy since she has a no contact order and he can't see the kid(s) so she has no motive to defend the guy, has now come out and said not only was he in Alabama, remember this was Christmas eve. The ex says the suspect spent every Christmas with her and the kids while they were married. Who wouldn't remember a Christmas Dad was mysteriously absent? And she said, no one from the Boulder Police has yet to contact her though she has tried to contact them. Talk about incompetence, not even a simple investigation where this guy was at the time of the murder. The divorce records were part of the public record so it wouldn't have been hard to figure out the suspect was married at the time. The Boulder Police didn't even interview the ex-wife about this guy's whereabouts before issuing the arrest warrant.
Sorry, Sack of Kittens, there was evidence against the Ramseys, just not enough to go to court and part of that was the way the initial crime scene was mis-handled. I don't think the press convicted the Ramseys, their own behavior and the evidence did.
BTW, welcome to SFN. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/17/2006 20:32:00 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 21:01:22 [Permalink]
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I'm one of those who casually followed the JonBenet Ramsey case, with feelings that something was wrong about the Ramseys, though I did not hurl any accusations. It just has always seemed there was a mean streak in the Ramseys, and that they were using their wealth in a heavy-handed manner in their defense. Suspicion alarms were ringing in my head, though I certainly had and have no evidence against the Ramseys. Rich assholes can be innocent, too.
The "confession" of this guy seems self-fabricated. He seems to be a pedophile with delusions. He even seems to be enjoying the attention he's getting. I am hoping that soon he'll be charged with matters such as false police reports only, at least in the Ramsey case. The Ramsey family seems to be leading the drumbeat against this weirdo. And that remains consistent with my continuing suspicions about the Ramseys, though again it proves nothing.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/17/2006 21:05:53 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2006 : 21:58:07 [Permalink]
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beskeptigal said:
quote:
Not everyone worries when the police look at them as suspects in their own child's disappearance. You might want to look at what John Walsh had to say about being a suspect. He said you tell the cops to do everything they need to to rule out yourself (and spouse or whoever) so they can get on with looking elsewhere. Actually, that's what most parents not involved in a disappearance do. There would be a few innocent people who would be suspicious enough of the police to shut up as you say, but I doubt it is the norm.
So.... your child is dead, you didn't do it, the cops are doing their thing, and then they start questioning you as if you were the prime suspect....
You're not asking for a lawyer?
The fact that most homicides are done by people the victim knew doesn't make you worry that the cops are just looking for a quick arrest?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 08/17/2006 21:58:34 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 04:51:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
I recall reading about the dingo case a few years ago -- A dingo actually did it, but I don't remember the details.
It was the Lindy Chamberlain case. She was a Seventh Day Adventist accused of killing her daughter near Ayer's Rock (which has been renamed to its original name now I believe). She said her daughter was dragged away by a dingo and was eventually vindicated.
I agree with your "prize calf" comment Filthy. I always thought the picture of that little girl with all that makeup that was always on the covers of the supermarket tabloids was very creepy - something that would definitely appeal to a pedophile. No wonder the parents were suspects.
Thanks Ghost. I looked it up at the Crime Library, which is where I saw it in the first place. Abn interesting tale and a prime example of how even the best can get it wrong.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 04:56:31 [Permalink]
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It has been said, and I firmly believe it, that the innocent need a lawyer even more than the guilty. It stands to reason, really. The innocent have a lot more to lose...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 04:59:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Latest news, I am further confident in my assessment the confessor is mentally ill. The fact he had written Patsy Ramsey and no one arrested him or tested his DNA then is one clue. But the biggest one had been confirmed, the ex-wife, who may just hate the guy since she has a no contact order and he can't see the kid(s) so she has no motive to defend the guy, has now come out and said not only was he in Alabama, remember this was Christmas eve. The ex says the suspect spent every Christmas with her and the kids while they were married. Who wouldn't remember a Christmas Dad was mysteriously absent? And she said, no one from the Boulder Police has yet to contact her though she has tried to contact them. Talk about incompetence, not even a simple investigation where this guy was at the time of the murder. The divorce records were part of the public record so it wouldn't have been hard to figure out the suspect was married at the time. The Boulder Police didn't even interview the ex-wife about this guy's whereabouts before issuing the arrest warrant.
Sorry, Sack of Kittens, there was evidence against the Ramseys, just not enough to go to court and part of that was the way the initial crime scene was mis-handled. I don't think the press convicted the Ramseys, their own behavior and the evidence did.
BTW, welcome to SFN.
I was wondering about that, too-- an early report yesterday (well, early for those of us who don't regularly follow the case) noted that he had an alibi and was in Alabama. And I never saw much of a connection to his being in Denver at the time. If the wife hasn't recanted, then we can assume (!?) that he really was in Alabama and couldn't have been in Colorado. Right? |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 05:28:55 [Permalink]
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BTW, JonBenet is making the papers in Italy (with the headline "The JonBenet case is still not closed"). Don't the Italians have their own very strange unsolved child murder cases?
ETA: The Germans don't seem to care, and neither do the French. Of course, this may be simply that I'm checking the wrong German and French papers, and that my significant other only reads the trashy Italian papers, but who knows... |
| Edited by - Cuneiformist on 08/18/2006 05:38:36 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 07:33:16 [Permalink]
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| In Sweden, there's mention in the two largest tabloids. The more respected non-tabloid newspaper didn't have anything. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 08/18/2006 07:34:02 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 12:34:39 [Permalink]
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Re innocent people needing a lawyer, this really depends on the situation and the competence of the police. Just as with medicine, some professionals are more competent than others.
Given the apparent incompetence of the Boulder Police, if one were innocent and the police in that situation started treating them as guilty, yes, I'd get a lawyer in that case. There is no doubt, from the hundreds of people found innocent by DNA evidence after being convicted, that the judicial system isn't doing a good job of convicting the right people.
But there are a few other things to consider here besides the Ramseys just getting a lawyer and following legal advice not to talk to police. Like I said in my first post, the most incriminating evidence against the Ramseys was when John Ramsey went to the basement and brought the body out. There are so many reasons that was unlikely to have occurred if he hadn't put the body there in the first place. There is other evidence against the Ramseys besides this, no since rehashing.
As to getting the lawyer if one was innocent, there would indeed be a good reason and if you were rich, you'd hire one in a second. But what would you tell the lawyer? That you want to protect your ass first and get your child's murderer second? Or the other way around? Getting a lawyer doesn't mean stopping all cooperation with the police and then going on talk shows to give your story. If a lawyer advised the Ramseys not to talk to police, wouldn't the same advice apply to going on Larry King?
So just getting the lawyer doesn't explain to me the behavior of the Ramseys. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 13:26:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
U.S. Homeland Security officials and Thai police seized Karr in his modest Bangkok apartment on Wednesday (August 16) afternoon, hours after a Colorado judge issued an arrest warrant for him in connection with Ramsey's death -- apparently based on a tip-off.
"Boulder County [Colorado] District Attorney's Office received information that a subject was providing information, and might be connected to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey," said Ann Hurst, Homeland Security attache at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok.
A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey communicated with Karr over several months, and Tracey contacted police, AP reported.
Tracey produced a documentary in 2004 called "Who Killed JonBenet?"
Karr's apparent mistake was maintaining contacts with the US. A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey had communicated with Karr by e-mail for several months and a particular message in May prompted Tracey to contact US authorities, who eventually traced the messages to Bangkok. The contents of Karr's e-mail correspondence with Tracey have not yet been disclosed.
Lacy suggested that the arrest may have been forced by other circumstances, including the need for public safety and fear the suspect might flee. She noted that he had started teaching in the Thai capital on Tuesday.
"There are circumstances that exist in any case that mandate an arrest before an investigation is complete," Lacy said.
These are quotes from several Internet news sources I cherry picked to bring up an as yet unanswered question in all this. It is a conspiracy thought and was brought up on the Thom Hartmann program today.
Who decided to arrest this guy now, before the DA was ready?
If he was a danger, the Thai government could have handled it. Why would they think he was about to flee when he was just beginning a new job? And, the tip came back in May. Why hadn't the DA done more to check this guys confession out in the 2-3 months since the tip?
And how did Homeland Security get involved as was asked earlier in this thread? Is that just the routine chain of people one goes through these days when arresting a US citizen abroad?
Or do we have another news distraction conspiracy going on here?
I await more info on what triggered this premature arrest. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/18/2006 13:26:18 |
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