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tw101356
Skeptic Friend

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  10:45:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tw101356 a Private Message
I read most of this thread this morning, later I happened upon this blog post on Conservative Rhetorical Strategy.

- TW
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  14:06:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
To to sum up the entire last 10 pages of this thread:

GK calls Godless powerful.
Other members say she lies
GK challenges others to show the lies
Other members show the lies
GK says that she should be allowed to lie like everyone else.

Is that right?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  14:13:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

To to sum up the entire last 10 pages of this thread:

GK calls Godless powerful.
Other members say she lies
GK challenges others to show the lies
Other members show the lies
GK says that she should be allowed to lie like everyone else.

Is that right?

Bingo, Ricky!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  14:27:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
On Page 274 Coulter talks about a tenured bioethics professor at Princeton (Peter Singer) who wrote the book," A Darwinian Left: Politics. Evolution, and Cooperation. She reports Singer says parents should have the right to kill newborn babies with birth defects like hemophilia and he sees nothing morally wrong with parents being allowed to conceive children for spare parts for older children, and society breeding children on large scale for spare parts.

Singer also believes that sex with animals is OK. And necrophiiia (sex with dead people) should be allowed as long as the dead person gave consent while alive. Remember this is a tenured professor at Princeton... Coulter later said that Jean Paul Satre said if God is dead everything is permiited... Folks this is where atheism and Darwinism can lead... No wonder Hitler and the Nazi scientists loved Darwin so much... Goodby Western Civilization, it was nice knowing you.

I think we should thank Coulter for informing us about this even though like everybody else in this forum she has lied. You see, people who have lied can supply useful information to society.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
Edited by - GK Paul on 09/04/2006 15:18:44
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  14:47:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

To to sum up the entire last 10 pages of this thread:

GK calls Godless powerful.
Other members say she lies
GK challenges others to show the lies
Other members show the lies
GK says that she should be allowed to lie like everyone else.

Is that right?

I never said she should be allowed to lie like everyone else so your post contains a falsehood. I believe lying is wrong.

I will no longer respond to anyone who uses the word "lie" in their post because your boring me to tears; make an effort to come up with something original. (like my previous post)


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
Edited by - GK Paul on 09/04/2006 14:55:00
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:02:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I think we should thank Coulter for informing us about this even though like everybody else in this forum she has lied. You see, people who have lied can supply useful information to society.
I freely admit that I lie from time to time. I try to not do it often though, because the truth always last longer.
The difference is that I try to be truthful as much as possible, and I would never consider making a living by selling lies. Especially lies that can so easily be uncovered. (Ok, that was a lie... I do consider from time to time how easy it seems to write up stuff like Coulter does and make loads of money off gullible people who want nothing else than want to believe me. Kent Hovind also comes to mind. But then, my honesty always wins out and I end up thinking about sci-fi instead.)


As far as Coulter goes, blatant lies run rampant in all her books, and as Kil said, the lies she tells are for a long term agenda. Not the lie-to-save-my-butt kind that you and I tell "Did you pay that parking ticket?" "Yeah, I did (no, it's still in my wallet, but I will pay it soon...)".
If there is one trend in her history of book-writing, it seems that her books contains more and more outrageous lies, and more of them. It's not like she's making an effort being more truthful, but quite the opposite.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:04:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Coulter later said that Jean Paul Satre said if God is dead everthing is permiited...


A little research might have led you or Coulter, if neither of you was too lazy to do any, to the Divine Command Theory, which doesn't really support the theist position:

quote:
The belief that morality requires God is not limited to theists, however. Many atheists subscribe to it as well. The existentialist Jean-Paul Sartre, for example, says that "If God is dead, everything is permitted." In other words, if there is no supreme being to lay down the moral law, each individual is free to do as he or she pleases. Without a divine lawgiver, there can be no universal moral law.

The view that God creates the moral law is often called the "Divine Command Theory of Ethics." According to this view, what makes an action right is that God wills it to be done. That an agnostic should find this theory suspect is obvious, for, if one doesn't believe in God or if one is unsure which God is the true God, being told that one must do as God commands will not help one solve any moral dilemmas. What is not so obvious is that theists should find this theory suspect, too, for it is inconsistent with a belief in God. The upshot is that both the fundamentalists and the existentialists are mistaken about what morality requires.

The Arbitrary Lawgiver

To better understand the import of the Divine Command Theory, consider the following tale. It seems that, when Moses came down from the mountain with the tablets containing the Ten Commandments, his followers asked him what they revealed about how they should live their lives. Moses told them, "I have some good news and some bad news."

"Give us the good news first," they said.

"Well, the good news," Moses responded, "is that he kept the number of commandments down to ten."

"Okay, what's the bad news?" they inquired.

"The bad news," Moses replied, "is that he kept the one about adultery in there." The point is that, according to Divine Command Theory, nothing is right or wrong unless God makes it so. Whatever God says goes. So if God had decreed that adultery was permissible, then adultery would be permissible.

Let's take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion. If the Divine Command Theory were true, then the Ten Commandments could have gone something like this: "Thou shalt kill everyone you dislike. Thou shalt rape every woman you desire. Thou shalt steal everything you covet. Thou shalt torture innocent children in your spare time. ..." The reason that this is possible is that killing, raping, stealing, and torturing were not wrong before God made them so. Since God is free to establish whatever set of moral principles he chooses, he could just as well have chosen this set as any other.




Try to read through the entire link GKP, then tell us what you think.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:14:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

On Page 274 Coulter talks about a tenured bioethics professor at Princeton (Peter Singer) who wrote the book," A Darwinian Left: Politics. Evolution, and Cooperation. She reports Singer says parents should have the right to kill newborn babies with birth defects like hemophilia and he sees nothing morally wrong with parents being allowed to conceive children for spare parts for older children, and society breeding children on large scale for spare parts.

Singer also believes that sex with animals is OK. And necrophiiia (sex with dead people) should be allowed as long as the dead person gave consent while alive. Remember this is a tenured professor at Princeton... Coulter later said that Jean Paul Satre said if God is dead everything is permiited... Folks this is where atheism and Darwinism can lead... Goodby Western Civilization, it was nice knowing you...

I think we should thank Coulter for informing us about this even though like everybody else in this forum she has lied. You see, people who have lied can supply useful information to society.


First, I distrust anything Coulter quotes, since she habitually and systematically lies outright or quotes out of context. Even if the references were accurate in this case however, anyone can just as easily find someone one the Right who makes outrageous statements -- such as Coulter herself.

Coulter (and you) would tar all liberals and secular humanists with the statements of carefully selected and non-representative people who consider themselves to be on the Left, sometimes by distorting their statements, or via outright invention. By contrast, most of us here would not assume every Conservative is as crazy and deceitful as the loathsome Ms. Coulter. But those who defend her after being presented with clear evidence of her mendacity certainly do deserve to be lumped with her and her hateful, lying ways.

You have failed to reply to any of the important questions asked of you, and have shown no interest in reading the material that people here, at some expense of effort, have so kindly presented you. Clearly, the truth is of no account to you.

I suspect that the only reason any of us are continuing this one-sided debate is that you provide a convenient example of how not to do critical thought. By refusing to actually participate in any meaningful way, you have become a mere unwitting prop in a discussion by others.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:18:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

On Page 274 Coulter talks about a tenured bioethics professor at Princeton (Peter Singer) who wrote the book," A Darwinian Left: Politics. Evolution, and Cooperation. She reports Singer says parents should have the right to kill newborn babies with birth defects like hemophilia and he sees nothing morally wrong with parents being allowed to conceive children for spare parts for older children, and society breeding children on large scale for spare parts.
What is your objection to those things? Why am I bothering to ask? You're not going to answer.
quote:
Singer also believes that sex with animals is OK.
That's not true, he only said we shouldn't be shocked by it since it doesn't lower our "status" in a zoological sense, and he's right.
quote:
And necrophiiia (sex with dead people) should be allowed as long as the dead person gave consent while alive.
What's the problem there?
quote:
Remember this is a tenured professor at Princeton...
And?
quote:
Coulter later said that Jean Paul Satre said if God is dead everthing is permiited...
So Sartre was wrong, too.
quote:
Folks this is where atheism and Darwinism can lead...
Ah, it's clear that you're one of those people who think that without your religion, you would do all sorts of horrible things. It's a real pity that you know nothing of atheism or evolution, but feel compelled to speak as if you know what their effects are.
quote:
Goodby Western Civilization, it was nice knowing you...
Yeah, that's been said for 150 years now, but it hasn't happened yet, has it?
quote:
I think we should thank Coulter for informing us about this even though like everybody else in this forum she has lied. You see, people who have lied can supply useful information to society.
It is only "useful" information to people who believe that fear of some god or other is the only way to get people to behave. Coulter's information has done nothing for you but confirm what you obviously had already concluded: that left to themselves, human beings are hedonistic immoral monsters, so they require a "big sky daddy" to threaten them with punishments if they don't act right. Why is it, GK Paul, that you assume the worst about humanity? Why is it that you attribute those bad characters to Darwinism and atheism, when such horrible behaviour has been around much, much longer than either one (just read your Bible for the evidence of that)?

Why is it that there are proportionally more religious people in jail than atheists? Why do people regularly commit atrocities in the name of God?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:24:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

No wonder Hitler and the Nazi scientists loved Darwin so much...
When did Hitler or any Nazi scientists ever even mention Darwin? Hitler was a proud Christian, and committed his atrocities in the name of God.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  15:24:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

I will no longer respond to anyone who uses the word "lie" in their post because your boring me to tears; make an effort to come up with something original. (like my previous post)

Hilarious, GK! You start by posting a "review" of Coulter's latest book, one demonstrated above to be packed with lies, and now expect us not to dare use the word, "lie"? This is akin to discussing Mein Kampf while not being allowed to use the word, "anti-Semitism."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  16:08:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Folks this is where atheism and Darwinism can lead...


As a supposed former atheist, you know precious little about it.

And now you won't respond to posts with the word lie in it. Good, becuase you lie and are a liar. Does it hurt to have your pants on fire all the time?

May a god burn you in hell for it.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  16:44:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Why is it that there are proportionally more religious people in jail than atheists? Why do people regularly commit atrocities in the name of God? (emphasis by Mabuse)

Dave, I think you meant to say unproportionally...

As in: there are fewer atheists and agnostics in jail than there should be, if jail population was representative of the society in general.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  16:57:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

I never said she should be allowed to lie like everyone else so your post contains a falsehood. I believe lying is wrong.



You agreed that she lied in her book, and I take it you still claim her book to be powerful? That sounds like saying she should be allowed to lie to me.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  17:12:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
Folks, this guy Singer isn't some professor holed up in a back office. Coulter claims the liberal clery at The New Yorker has hailed Singer "as the most influential living philosopher" and that the New York Times says of Singer "{N}o other living philosopher has had this kind of influence."

Folks remember what I said in the Caesar's Messiah forum. The farther you get away from God (necrophilia etc.) the more suffering you will experience(in the long run); and that includes societies getting away from God.

This stuff will happen, unless we wake up.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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