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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  22:49:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
LOL - your initial post was:

quote:
Godless is a powerful book. Coulter really blasts everything from liberals to Darwin's theory. She calls it unproven "bogus" science and has a lot of information to back it up.


Now, you are admitting (not in so many words, but it is very much implied from your last post) that she lied in the book, and are now trying to shift away from her and bringing in an unrelated topic.

Just be a man (or woman, whichever it is) and admit that this "powerful" book you have so much admiration for is not quite such the literary giant you were trying to make it out to be.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 09/03/2006 22:50:23
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  22:49:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Bill Clinton lied under oath, and told other lies, and most liberals certainly were able to forgive him. Whether or not you forgive should not be dependent on whether or not you agree with a person's opinions.
Okay, so how many conservatives have forgiven Clinton?

No, the real point is that Coulter lies in order to make money and make herself famous. Nothing more. Clinton's lies certainly didn't make him any more famous, nor did they line his pockets (quite probably the opposite). This moderate social liberal and fiscal conservative will tell you that Clinton was a dumb-ass for lying under oath. Coulter's not being a dumb-ass when she lies, since, as you say, her book is "powerful."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  22:50:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

And you made another edit:
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

...if you can't give donations to teacher's unions let me know where you got that info.
I already showed you that. If you have any evidence in support of your implied claim that a person can just hand over money to unions without being a member, please post it here.

What was the date and time of post where you showed evidence that you can't make donations to unions


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  23:11:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

What was the date and time of post where you showed evidence that you can't make donations to unions
I didn't present such evidence. In this post, I asked you how I was supposed to be able to give money to the NEA without being an educator (you even quoted it in your subsequent post, without actually addressing that question).

Surely you're not going to hold me to a different standard of evidence than you hold yourself, are you? I couldn't find a "donate" button or anything else similar to it on the NEA's website, just like you couldn't find the word "abortion" on the NARAL's website. Although I'm sure I spent more time trying to find a way to give money to the NEA than you did trying to find "abortion" on the pro-choice site.

Heck, if I Google for "AFL-CIO donate," all I come up with is pages about donating to the AFL-CIO's charity work, like hurricane relief, and not how I can just give any union any spare cash I might have.

No, GK Paul, if you want to show that Coulter is correct that liberals are encouraged to "tithe" to teachers unions - any of them - you're going to have to provide evidence that people who aren't teachers can just give those unions money. Since you're the one defending Coulter's statement, the burden of proof is on you, not me.

And to keep these things on the page...

Things GK Paul has still failed to acknowledge:
  • Coulter's many documented lies,
  • Coulter's current lies,
  • Pelosi was talking about worshipping the Christian God, not liberalism,
  • "Pro-Choice" activists use the word "abortion" often,
  • Dembski was closely involved in Coulter's chapters on evolution,
  • nobody can "tithe" to the NEA who isn't an educator, and
  • abortion isn't a "sacrament."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/03/2006 :  23:39:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

What was the date and time of post where you showed evidence that you can't make donations to unions
I didn't present such evidence. In this post, I asked you how I was supposed to be able to give money to the NEA without being an educator (you even quoted it in your subsequent post, without actually addressing that question).

Surely you're not going to hold me to a different standard of evidence than you hold yourself, are you? I couldn't find a "donate" button or anything else similar to it on the NEA's website, just like you couldn't find the word "abortion" on the NARAL's website. Although I'm sure I spent more time trying to find a way to give money to the NEA than you did trying to find "abortion" on the pro-choice site.

Heck, if I Google for "AFL-CIO donate," all I come up with is pages about donating to the AFL-CIO's charity work, like hurricane relief, and not how I can just give any union any spare cash I might have.

No, GK Paul, if you want to show that Coulter is correct that liberals are encouraged to "tithe" to teachers unions - any of them - you're going to have to provide evidence that people who aren't teachers can just give those unions money. Since you're the one defending Coulter's statement, the burden of proof is on you, not me.

And to keep these things on the page...

Things GK Paul has still failed to acknowledge:
  • Coulter's many documented lies,
  • Coulter's current lies,
  • Pelosi was talking about worshipping the Christian God, not liberalism,
  • "Pro-Choice" activists use the word "abortion" often,
  • Dembski was closely involved in Coulter's chapters on evolution,
  • nobody can "tithe" to the NEA who isn't an educator, and
  • abortion isn't a "sacrament."


I'll acknowledge Coulter has lied just like you, me, Clinton and probably everyone else in the forum. If nobody in this forum has lied in the past please come in and I will commend you. If you have lied in the past than you really shouldn't be getting on your high horse and be ranting about lies just because you don't like her opinions.



"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  00:12:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Please list the mistakes in the works of the scientists Coulter quotes.

If Coulter lied in the past she was wrong, just like you were wrong when you lied in the past. If you have never lied in the past than I commend you.

But the fact that a person has told a deliberate or a unintentional falsehood does not mean that person is incapable of telling truths in the future. Also there is a saying it takes one to know one. If Coulter has various weaknesses maybe she has some special talent to spot certain negative behavior. Usually people with some special unusual talent have a weakness.


Others here who are more versed in how Creationists lie to support their arguments have provided examples and given you links. You were wondering why why she would use bad science and I explained why. The issue is not whether Ann Coulter, myself or Bill Clinton or Paul Martin or Stephen Harper have ever told a lie. The issue is that Ann Coulter's book is full of lies. Her "powerful" arguments are based on evidence that she made up. Apparently this means nothing to you. Apparently it is OK to lie (Ann Coulter), cheat and steal(Ken Lay) if you proclaim Christianity. Being a pathological lier is more than a weakness.

Does being a best seller make a book true - hell no - Kevin Trudeau's unmitigated horse manure is a best seller too. All it proves is that America has the most scientifically ignorant population of any industrialized country. As for America being prosperous because it is so Godly - Beskiptigal has provided a lot of information indicating American aren't so well off. Here and here is some more evidence. American prosperity is built on a house of cards - govenrment debt, corporate debt and private debt.

Read my signature - the bit about faith and stupidity.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  00:24:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

LOL - your initial post was:

quote:
Godless is a powerful book. Coulter really blasts everything from liberals to Darwin's theory. She calls it unproven "bogus" science and has a lot of information to back it up.


Now, you are admitting (not in so many words, but it is very much implied from your last post) that she lied in the book, and are now trying to shift away from her and bringing in an unrelated topic.

Just be a man (or woman, whichever it is) and admit that this "powerful" book you have so much admiration for is not quite such the literary giant you were trying to make it out to be.

I didn't imply that Coulter lied in the book in my last post so I believe your last post was a falsehood.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  00:53:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
GK Paul:
Bill Clinton lied under oath, and told other lies, and most liberals certainly were able to forgive him. Whether or not you forgive should not be dependent on whether or not you agree with a person's opinions.

Okay dokey. I forgive Ann Coulter for being a pathological liar. I will still not buy one of her books because all of the evidence suggests that she will continue to be a pathological liar. And that is saying something because I own a lot of books by people I don't happen to agree with. The difference being, I believe those other writers came by and expressed their opinions honestly.

Sigh…


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  01:33:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Coulter -- I wonder...

She invested many years in training to be a constitutional lawyer and is even a member of the bar, or was the last time I heard. But instead of continuing to read the law, she writes drivvel. There's more money in drivvel, I suppose.

Re: these scientists of Dembski's; at last report there was some 600 of them on his list, all holding doctorates. Unfortumatly, all but a handful were not in biological fields. They were engineers, theologians, a couple of astronomers, mathmatitions, and so forth. And very few of them were named Steve.....

Let us not forget: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." -- Theodosius Dobzhansky (1900-1975)





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  04:58:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I didn't imply that Coulter lied in the book in my last post so I believe your last post was a falsehood.

You have been provided evidence that she has lied a lot in the book Godless. Why why won't you acknowledge it?


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  05:53:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
GK Paul:

For 9 pages now people have shown where Coulter's book is in error. For 9 pages, you have done nothing but the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "I CAN'T HEEEEAAAAARRRRR YOU!!!", and that just doesn't cut it. I was going to cut and paste some examples for you, but screw that. It's time for you to do a little work. Get up off your dead intellectual ass and go back and read the responses. All of them. Don't just "skip around". Pick one you disagree with and provide evidence as to why it is incorrect. Provide references. Anything less than that is just more snivelling on your part.

All that has shown so far is that Coulter's book is powerful in the same way as a truckload of .

And by the way, I don't really give a rat's ass if you're offended. Your refusal to acknowledge the research done by others here is offensive.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  06:40:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
I didn't imply that Coulter lied in the book in my last post so I believe your last post was a falsehood.



Of course not:

quote:
I'll acknowledge Coulter has lied just like you, me, Clinton and probably everyone else in the forum.


But here you are just saying she is human and has lied. You still will not acknowledge the specific lies in her "powerful" book.

But why did you try to bring up Clinton? Nevermind, don't answer, it will be a bunch of bullshit anyway.

It really is too bad you can't be honest. You make baby Jesus cry.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  07:12:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

I'll acknowledge Coulter has lied just like you, me, Clinton and probably everyone else in the forum.
But she's not lying like you, me, Clinton or anyone else. She's lying with a specific, long-term agenda in mind, and will continue to do so as long as her lies sell lots of books.
quote:
If nobody in this forum has lied in the past please come in and I will commend you. If you have lied in the past than you really shouldn't be getting on your high horse and be ranting about lies just because you don't like her opinions.
Nobody is doing that. We are taking you, GK Paul, to task for considering Coulter's lies to be "powerful" and for defending Coulter's lies in the face of actual evidence. I wouldn't "rant" about Coulter's lies because I know full well it will do no good. But I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you're a rational person who would respond to a logical and supported argument. I guess I gave you too much credit, you being a teenager and all.

(Note to self: remember to put "the meaning of NARAL is easy to find" on the list.)

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  07:20:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK PaulI'll acknowledge Coulter has lied just like you, me, Clinton and probably everyone else in the forum. If nobody in this forum has lied in the past please come in and I will commend you. If you have lied in the past than you really shouldn't be getting on your high horse and be ranting about lies just because you don't like her opinions.
You are horribly confused. Let's take a step back. Coulter has written a number of books claiming that the conservative position is the correct one, while the liberal position is wrong. That she does so in such a way as to be obnoxious and hate-filled is not relevant, so I won't make that an issue.

Coulter's books are wildly popular, and Coulter is trotted out on radio and TV as a proponent of this argument.

Dupes like you come to this website and claim that Coulter's claims are "powerful".

That's where we stood at the start of this thread. You said that Coulter's book-- and thus the claims therein-- was "powerful." Focus here, because this is the issue: is Coulter's book powerful in its claims?

For 9 pages, now, we have shown time and again that the claims Coulter makes in her book Godless are entirely bogus. We have done so by showing that she makes things up, takes quotes out of context, and so on. In light of this, your argument regarding the "power" of Godless is weakened. Indeed, you have now conceeded that arguments are based on lies, and you must by extention must also be conceeding that her book isn't entirely powerful.

Her arguments are weak regardless of whether or not Clinton lied or we have ever lied. After all, we aren't writing books claiming one thing or another based on lies. But Coulter is doing that, and up until now, you've suggested that her arguments are powerful.

I hope now that you'll see that she is nothing but a charlatan who tells lies and spews vitrol all so that she can become rich.

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2006 :  09:54:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Cune:
I hope now that you'll see that she is nothing but a charlatan who tells lies and spews vitrol all so that she can become rich.


From Media Matters.
quote:
Coulter first came to national prominence as a legal correspondent and pundit for MSNBC, which fired her for insulting a Vietnam veteran. The conservative National Review dropped her column after she responded to the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, by stating that America should "invade their [terrorists'] countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." In an interview with The New York Observer, Coulter stated that "[m]y only regret with [Oklahoma City bomber] Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building." USA Today also removed Coulter as a columnist covering the 2004 Democratic National Convention after she referred to the gathering as the "Spawn of Satan convention."


She couldn't even keep her job working for the National Review. It seems that even they have a passing regard for honesty and integrity. Oh, by the way, when they fired her she called the editorial staff “girly-boys.” Apparently, we can add self-hating female to her list of pathologies…

It occurs to me that Coulter is the equivalent, as mainstream talking heads and writers go, of the tabloid press mentality. She seems to be completely unencumbered by facts. She could easily replace Ed Anger of the Weekly World News if it weren't for the fact that he is a fictional character and a joke, and Coulter is real…

On the other hand, she is probably laughing all the way to the bank. After all, she has her fans as this thread demonstrates...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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