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 Is The House Page Scandal Spreading?
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  15:01:21  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO: Just THIS In from the Wayne Madsen Report (online)

October 9, 2006 -- On October 2, WMR was the first media outlet to report on the involvement of Arizona Republican Rep. Jim Kolbe, the only openly gay GOP congressmen, in the Pagegate matter. We reported that Kolbe was a member and chairman of the House Page Board at the time reports of ex-Florida GOP Rep. Mark Foley's inappropriate sexual conduct with underage male pages was known to the Republican House leadership. WMR reported:

"From 2000 to 2001, the Page Board Chair was Rep. Sue Kelly (R-NY) and members included Rep. Jim Kolbe (R-AZ) (inexplicably replaced as chairman by Kelly), Kildee, Trandahl, and Livingood. Crews was the program coordinator. From 1999 to 2000, the Chairman was Kolbe and members included Rep. Jo Ann Emerson (R-MO), Kildee, Transdahl, and Livingood. The coordinator was Crews. From 1998 (when the allegations first reportedly surfaced about Foley), the Chair was Tillie Fowler (R-FL) and members were Kildee, Kolbe, House Clerk Robin Carle, and Livingood. The page coordinator was Hugh Addington. Foley became a congressman in 1995."

The Washington Post is reporting today, rather belatedly, that Kolbe was aware of Foley's salacious e-mails with an underage page in 2000. One of Foley's Instant Messages sent in January 2002 to a page stated that Kolbe once invited four pages to use his Washington home while Kolbe was in Arizona.

There is also much focus on the relationship between House Speaker Dennis Hastert and his chief of staff, 56-year old Scott Palmer. Hastert and Palmer, Hastert's longtime unmarried adviser, live together in a DC townhouse along with Hastert's Deputy Chief of Staff, Mike Stokke, while Hastert's wife Jean lives in Yorkville, Illinois and stays at a hotel when she visits Washington.

WMR has also learned of additional Senate links to the Pagegate scandal. There is much focus on GOP Sen. George Allen's predominantly white male staff. There is also interest in the activities of a senior GOP Senator from a Rocky Mountain state.

WMR's State Department sources have also reported that the visits of Hastert and other congressional leaders and staff members to certain Southeast Asian nations and the Northern Marianas should come under the scrutiny of the House Ethics Committee, now officially investigating "Pagegate." The Northern Marianas became infamous in the scandals involving Tom DeLay and Jack Abramoff because of the presence in the US slave labor territory of Asian children being used as prostitutes. Conveniently, Foley co-chaired the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, which would have had authority to investigate charges of child prostitution in the Northern Marianas.



Were Hastert and other congressional visits visits to Thailand and Vietnam on the up-and-up?

Our State Department sources report that it is no secret that a number of U.S. Foreign Service officers working out of the U.S. embassies in Bangkok, Phnom Penh, Hanoi, and Manila have been involved with underage nationals of the host countries where they are assigned. In fact, many have rotated their assignments between countries that look sideways at child prostitution and sex between adults and minors. In fact, John Mark Karr, as previously reported by WMR, was quickly whisked out of Bangkok after his arrest on pedophilia charges. The U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, working with the CIA and Department of Homeland Security, arranged for Karr's quick departure from Bangkok on a business class flight to the United States, where all charges, including those stemming from Karr's "admission" that he killed JonBenet Ramsey and child porn charges, were later dropped. WMR has learned that Karr may have been aware of the identities of top U.S. officials in the child sex trade in Thailand and that he was sprung from Thai authorities to prevent him from testifying in a Thai courtroom.

Hastert visited Vietnam, along with Palmer, in April of this year and spent three days in the country. Hastert, along with Illinois GOP Rep. Ray LaHood, canceled a visit to Thailand and Vietnam in January 2006. Hastert was also in Thailand in January 2002.

Orwellingly Yurz sez:

If Hastert wants and does carry on a homosexual relationship with another consenting adult, who the hell cares? Maybe his wife.

Looking the other way when ANY ADULT (homo or hetero) has sex with minors (male or female) or is hitting on them by IM, email or in person is something EVERYBODY should care about.

Why aren't Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson screaming for the scalps of anyone in the US House who has done nothing to stop this crap? Whether Mark Foley likes boys, girls, men or women has nothing to do with what the hell's going on back in D.C. In his mentor position over minor pages, what he has allegedly done is unacceptable; but hell, he's already quit. What about the rest of the Bushit lackies?

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  16:53:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
Why aren't Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and James Dobson screaming for the scalps of anyone in the US House who has done nothing to stop this crap?


They are more interested in preserving their power.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  18:50:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
I hate when shit like this ends up dominating the media during elections, when things like healthcare and the national debt, you know - real issues, should be dominating.

fuckin' politics. *sigh*

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 10/09/2006 :  19:12:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO: Marfknox. I love your usage of the French! Yes, I do too. It seems a goddamned shame it takes using weak moments of sneaky wand wavers or such, to turn the political heat on some people when what they've been doing or NOT been doing since they've been in office is way more than enough to hang them up to dry. But, as Rovian as this sounds: if this is what it takes to get enough American voters to kick their sorry asses out, then, as someone once said, "bring it on."

I could make a list thirty feet long of things more important to consider than whether Foley hits-on and humps boys, starting with how many Americans have died and been maimed in Iraq and the same for how many Iraqis.

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2006 :  00:45:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

I hate when shit like this ends up dominating the media during elections, when things like healthcare and the national debt, you know - real issues, should be dominating.

fuckin' politics. *sigh*



I am astounded that these other issues, especially the debt are hardly mentioned. - I guess no one likes to be reminded that they are living in a fool's paradise.

As Marf has pointed out before, Foley's actions, although descicable and an abuse of power, do not consstitute pedarism. However if any of the allegations regarding Thai etc "sex tourism" are true, the perpetrators should be circumsized with a chainsaw.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2006 :  01:59:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
marfknox said:
quote:
I hate when shit like this ends up dominating the media during elections, when things like healthcare and the national debt, you know - real issues, should be dominating.


Normally I would agree with you. But the dems have proven, repeatedly, that they are incapable of winning when the talk is of issues.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

It may not be dems rising to the occasion and winning the hearts and minds of the voters... but as long as it gets rid of a republican majority I'll take it.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2006 :  02:12:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Orwellingly Yurz

I could make a list thirty feet long of things more important to consider than whether Foley hits-on and humps boys, starting with how many Americans have died and been maimed in Iraq and the same for how many Iraqis.
Pretty soon the chicken hawks little adventure in Iraq will have killed more Americans (now 2,745) than the 9/11 attack (2,997).
In addition 233 coalition troops have been killed (= 2,978 coalition deaths).

I guess that the average American voter does not care much, but worse than that more than 40,000 Iraqi civilians are dead as a result of the neocon war in Iraq.

Yes, the US forces does not usually target civilians, but these people lost their lives because of the GOP decision to start and the inability to handle this war. Many of them as a direct result of coalition fire.(The 2005 figure was 37%)

If you don't care about human lives there is also the cost of more than $300,000,000,000 for this little party.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2006 :  02:46:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Like Dude, I'll take what I can get, and this scandle is spreading like syphilis. I think that the fall-out will be a lot more important than the scandle itself.

But don't expect the religious right to stay home early next month because of it. The Republican Party is all they have -- all of their eggs in a single, soiled basket -- and they will come out and vote for them no matter how slimey their candidates are.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2006 :  05:13:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
As has been pointed out there are bigger and tougher issues to deal with, but perhaps that actions required to deal with those issues would make the voting public uncomfortable. When getting reelected is the bottom line what career politician in their right mind would propose tough actions requiring a sacrifice by their constituents. A sacrifice over several years time.

Maybe I don't have a good grasp on the reality of politics, but I believe that career politicians are the problem. The urge to do what it takes to appease the voters and get reelected overwhelms all others. The courage to deal with the major issues looming just over the horizon takes people with a greater interest in the future of this country rather than the power of position.

Term limits 12 years for Senators and 12 years for representatives. Shear lunacy and not original.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  02:22:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
I agree that there should be term limits for any elected official, period. If you can only be president for 2 terms, then you shouldn't be allowed to hold any other elected office for more than 2 terms.

Just another empty republican promise, those congressional term limits....


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  02:52:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
While it isn't as important as the Iraq war, it is disgusting to hear the good ol' boys claim they didn't really know what the details were, and now the Speaker is claiming his staff members might not have told him. These guys are just giving excuses to those people who really want to believe in the lies. And subliminally and overtly trying to connect the Democrats to Foley takes the cake.

Some Bush supporting fire fighters who know my politics were claiming today that Clinton was at fault for N. Korea's nuke test. What is wrong with people? Worst President in a long time, horrific needless war, thinking they can bully N Korea when the guy in charge is totally nuts, more corruption than any recent batch of elected officials I'm aware of...and the Party faithful just suck up the talking points like nothing is wrong.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/11/2006 02:53:06
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  03:09:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Some Bush supporting fire fighters who know my politics were claiming today that Clinton was at fault for N. Korea's nuke test. What is wrong with people?
Like this prostitute?
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  03:22:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Yes! That was totally disgusting as well.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  03:30:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Here are the Republicans trying to blame Clinton claiming he made all these deals that N Korea just took advantage of but never kept their end of the deal. But what isn't said in the same conversation which is the follow up to that is that all the bullying and refusing to coddle the madman running N Korea hasn't done beans to stop him either.

Of course there are those in denial who are still blaming Clinton, a fairly successful President, for the crap that is Bush's fault, a very unsuccessful President. Such deniers conveniently don't even think about that logical follow up.

Besides which, if GW can blame Clinton 6 years into GW's term, then Clinton surely can blame all the Presidents who came before him. And that would be mostly with Rs in front of their titles.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 10/11/2006 03:31:46
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  13:24:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
My take on this scandal is that the apparent attempts by Foley to predate on minors is serious, but so far there is no evidence that his attempts resulted in any illegal molestation. (Given the many years Foley was trying to seduce many teens, I personally would be surprised if did not have sex with one or more boys, who have not yet, and may never, come forward.)

Foley's actions are serious, and he is being investigated by the FBI and others. But his actions, whatever they are are, mainly misbehavior of a personal nature, and are not huge in their direct political implications beyond himself.

However, the years of cover-up for Foley by the GOP leadership in the House of Representatives is a serious issue for all Americans. This part is not a small issue in terms of misfeasance in the public's service. It shows the worst kind of abuse that a party can exercise in defense of its majority. But instead of protecting Foley's seat, it looks as though Has-turd and his bunch have put Foley's and many other GOP-held seats at risk in the coming election.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/11/2006 13:27:32
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2006 :  13:52:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
And then you have nitwits like Patrick McHenry who would have us shoot the messenger. It actually makes me irritable to watch this outside the context of "The Daily Show".
quote:
Do you have any evidence that Democrats were not involve.
Someone should smack Patrick. He is an embarrassment to the state of North Carolina. But of course NC may deserve him.

Putrid absolutely putrid.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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