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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2006 : 14:50:52 [Permalink]
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Thank you for bringing this fascinating interview to our attention.
The churches, of course, will reject the Gospel of Judas as a Second Century AD creation of no real historical or religious value. But wouldn't that be a fairly accurate description of all the Gospels?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/02/2006 14:55:54 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2006 : 15:23:31 [Permalink]
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B., I wasn't able to find the "lower god" reference. Could you possibly help me find that? (It is hard for me to imagine a god "lower" than jealous, genocidal Jehovah.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 06:21:52 [Permalink]
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I wish I was at home and had my texts...... Sounds "Manchean Gnostic".....
Gist.... The Aeons (or Archons) ruled. The higher god was the "Father of Light". His wife, Sophia, had a consort. The consort got her pregnant and Yawah was born. Yawah stole some of the light and made the earth and trapped the light in man. He hid man from the knowledge. He told them that he was a jealous god, and forbid them to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of the Light... which they did anyway after the serpent (Jesus) told them to.
The Manhean Gnostics were another Gnostic group that was hunted down and destroyed much like the Cathers and others.
I love old religious texts..... So much fun......
Nag Hammadi
Peaace
Joe |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2006 : 07:03:20 [Permalink]
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| "Ray, if someone asks if you're a god, you say YES!" - Winston Zeddemore |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 20:32:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
B., I wasn't able to find the "lower god" reference. Could you possibly help me find that? (It is hard for me to imagine a god "lower" than jealous, genocidal Jehovah.)
They discussed it in the radio interview. I didn't read the written version. Here's more on it which surprises me that I've not heard this before or if I did it didn't sink in.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Ryter/jon131.htm
Under Gnostic cosmology, the Supreme Being—or rather, supreme beings—are two Divine Mothers. The higher deify, Barbelo, is the creative thought of the ineffable parent. The lower deity, Sophia, is the accidental creator of the ignorant demiurge who made the cosmos, but also works to free the divine spirit captured by the demiurge in human form. Barbelo is the First Emanation—the Absolute Being who controls forethought and foreknowledge. According to the Gnostic Apocryphan of John, "...He `thought' His own likeness when He saw it in the pure Light-water that surrounded Him. And His thought [ennoia] became efficacious and made herself manifest. This is the First Thought, His Image. She became the womb of everything for She is prior to them all, the Mother-Father, the First Man [Anthropos], the Holy Spirit, the Thrice-Male, the Thrice-Powerful, the Thrice-named Androgynous One, and the Eternal Aeon among the Invisible Ones, and the first to come forth." Are you reading Canon when you read the Gospel of Judas? I think not. The feminists will love the Gospel of Judas because it gives them a female God.
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/gospel/learn.html
In the Old Testament, Cain kills his brother Abel and is cursed by God. But in Gnostic texts Cain appears as a hero. Why celebrate a murderer? Because Gnostics saw the Old Testament God as a lower deity, a power crazed demiurge, who created a flawed physical world that imprisons human souls. Salvation for them meant escaping the physical realm to be reunited with the true supreme being. To Gnostics, any defiance against the false creator god was an heroic act. So one school of Gnostics celebrated Cain's murder of Abel, whose offering of lambs the Old Testament God favored over Cain's offering of crops. In the same way, The same school celebrated the people of Sodom, the city that the Old Testament God destroys after its people try to rape visiting angels. These Gnostics were not embracing murder or rape, they were identifying with those who rebelled against the Old Testament God.
There is an html version of the file http://www.fumc-a2.org/cf/files/sermon060731.doc. but it wouldn't link with the BB code.
The Gnostic's understanding which is articulated in the Gospel of Judas is a pretty weird story too. They have this elaborate hierarchy of the spiritual realm which makes the creator of our world a lower god that is not all good and has been duping us to worship him. And those who are ignorant do. But those with knowledge, those with the inner divine spark of the higher spiritual realm won't accept it anymore. That is the Gnostic myth for coping with the experience of life on earth. And salvation does not come by worshiping the god of this world or accepting his creation. It comes by denying this world and rejecting the body that binds us to it.
And that is why Judas' betrayal according to the Gospel of Judas is a righteous act. By handing Jesus over to the authorities, Judas allows Jesus to escape his own mortal flesh to return to the eternal realm from whence he came.
The Gospel of Judas and Gnostic thought is different from what we are used to. But I do believe that they are trying to answer and give meaning to the questions and mysteries that all humanity has asked and experienced throughout hi |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 11/04/2006 20:36:36 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 20:44:09 [Permalink]
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Thank you very much, B.! That's facinating stuff.
(Barbelo, eh? I'm not sure I particularly like to spend too much time worshipping a female who is not effable.)
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2006 : 21:51:12 [Permalink]
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Gnostisim comes in many flavors.
I flasely attributed the Mancheans with the myth I presented in my first post on this. It actually came from the Secret Book of John(Gonstic).
According to this book, the highest being is the Father of Light.
Stay with me here, because the author of the article B'Gal posted seems to be a bit off on creation acording to John......
The Father of Light is... [quote]... the immeasurable Light. the Holy and the Pure Purity..... It is not perfection, or beatitude, or diey, but something far more excellent. It is neither corporeal nor incorporeal... noone can think it. It isnot anything existent, but something prior..... It has no part of an Aeon...."[quote]
Enter the Barbelo, the perfect Aeon of Glory. It just gets a bit strange from here...... Actually is is already a bit strange, but you'll have to read it for yourself.......
Basically, the first chick.... give me , give me, give me.... (sorry, couldn't resist).
Eventually she looks at the purity of the light (after asking all that stuff from it) and gives birth to a shower of sparks, the first monogenes... Christ.......
After this a bunch of Aeons are made. One of them is Sophia. Here is original Sin, not Eve (or Lilith if you want).
Sophia actually had a thought for herself, and without consent, willed a copy of herself.... Ialdabaoth (Yahweh). Well, this little bugger, being an appreciative and good sion, stole some of his mothers' light. He created the Archons (angels). He gave them some of his power, but none of the light he stole....
From there, you will have to read the rest, because it is getting late, and I have a few more things to do.
THe gist..... Adam, Eve, the Tree of the Thought of the Light, and the Serpent who is the Christ make an appearence........
Quote and info from:
The Other Bible
HarperSanFrancisco 1984
pages 50-61
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