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 The madness of Ken Ham...
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  06:27:38  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
It's a religion, I tells ya! Just another fornicatin' religion!
quote:
The Root of the Problem
by Ken Ham, President, AiG–USA

First published in
The Lie: Evolution
Chapter 4

Why do evolutionists not want to admit that evolution is really a religion?

It is related to the fact that whatever you believe about your origins does affect your whole world view, the meaning of life, etc. If there is no God and we are the result of chance random processes, it means there is no absolute authority. And if there is no one who sets the rules, then everyone can do whatever he likes or hopes he can get away with. Evolution is a religion which enables people to justify writing their own rules. The sin of Adam was that he did not want to obey the rules God set but do his own will. He rebelled against God, and we all suffer from this same sin: rebellion against the absolute authority. Evolution has become the so-called “scientific” justification for people to continue in this rebellion against God.

The Bible tells us in the Book of Genesis that there is a true and reliable account of the origin and early history of life on earth. Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science and history upon it, all the evidence from the living animals and plants, the fossils, and the cultures fits. This confirms that the Bible really is the Word of God and can be trusted totally.

The secular humanists, of course, oppose this because they cannot allow the possibility of God being Creator. They fight to have prayer, Bible readings, and the teaching of creation forced out of the public school curriculum. They have deceived the public into thinking this is eliminating religion from schools and leaving a neutral situation. This is simply not true! They haven't eliminated religion from the public school. They have eliminated Christianity and have replaced it with an anti-God religion — humanism.

And I was afraid that I would miss Kent Hovind's idiotcy......




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  06:56:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
When will these guys come up with something new? This stuff is old and boring, besides being a lie.


by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  10:51:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science and history upon it, all the evidence from the living animals and plants, the fossils, and the cultures fits. This confirms that the Bible really is the Word of God and can be trusted totally.

Who are these scientists? And why do they continue to refer to themselves as scientists when it is likely that they are no longer engaging in the hard work of science?

As Kil queried in another thread, "When you step back and revel at god's creation are you still capable of asking the tough question and persue the answers?"

Though it might not have been a query, could have been a statement.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  13:57:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science

I believe the number has increased to 7 or 8...



If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
Edited by - furshur on 12/01/2006 13:58:16
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  14:13:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message

You got that right. But this guy is crazy. We've all heard interviews with him.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  14:32:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
article:

Why do evolutionists not want to admit that evolution is really a religion?

It is related to the fact that whatever you believe about your origins does affect your whole world view, the meaning of life, etc. If there is no God and we are the result of chance random processes, it means there is no absolute authority. And if there is no one who sets the rules, then everyone can do whatever he likes or hopes he can get away with. Evolution is a religion which enables people to justify writing their own rules. The sin of Adam was that he did not want to obey the rules God set but do his own will. He rebelled against God, and we all suffer from this same sin: rebellion against the absolute authority. Evolution has become the so-called “scientific” justification for people to continue in this rebellion against God.

The Bible tells us in the Book of Genesis that there is a true and reliable account of the origin and early history of life on earth. Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science and history upon it, all the evidence from the living animals and plants, the fossils, and the cultures fits. This confirms that the Bible really is the Word of God and can be trusted totally.

The secular humanists, of course, oppose this because they cannot allow the possibility of God being Creator. They fight to have prayer, Bible readings, and the teaching of creation forced out of the public school curriculum. They have deceived the public into thinking this is eliminating religion from schools and leaving a neutral situation. This is simply not true! They haven't eliminated religion from the public school. They have eliminated Christianity and have replaced it with an anti-God religion — humanism.


Any scientist that assumes the conclusion is true first then interprets all the data based on that assumption is not a scientist. If I assume the fairies hold me down and then interpet physics based on the assumption that fairies cause the physics with their magick, of course I can proved my assumption. "I accept it and therefore it is true! Now, prove me wrong big bad scientist."

Of course, if we really do assume genesis is true than the data does not make sense and this is a good proof that the genesis theory needs some work (I suggest we add evolution, Big bang theory, archeaology, history, and take out all that genesis BS). Then we will have a sound theory and can work on it from there.

Why do they continue with this crap about no rules atheism? Has this not been dealt with a million times over already. God cannot provide rules for us unless we are able to cognitively question those rules and decide for ourselves if they are good ideas. This process of course mean we can as humans decide right and wrong. Honestly, I am tired of these guys.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Edited by - Neurosis on 12/01/2006 22:05:46
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  19:15:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Gotta love this guy's deliberately deceptive apologetic "logic."

Let me try to deconstruct some little parts of what Ham is doing:

"Why do evolutionists not want to admit that evolution is really a religion?"

By using the term "admit" and "really," Ham is hoping the reader will jump directly to his conclusion without further thought. (Most of the fundy knuckle-walkers who read his stuff will probably oblige.) Cheap opening gambit, no points.

"If there is no God and we are the result of chance random processes, it means there is no absolute authority."

Nonsense. First, nobody is proposing that "random processes" are solely responsible for life. Obviously, underlying natural laws, chemical reactions, etc. would determine how life came to be through a system of increasing self-organization, with "random processes" being only a part of this picture. And even if science could somehow disprove a particular deity, that would in itself not disprove that there are some other kind of basic natural rules, even absolute ones, somewhere in the works.

"And if there is no one who sets the rules,..."

Whoa, hold it there a moment. "No one"? Tried to slip that anthropomorphic God in the sentence en passant, eh? And you ignore that humanity is all about setting rules. Yup, even the goofiest ones in the Bible were composed by people. Prove it ain't so.

"...then everyone can do whatever he likes or hopes he can get away with."

Yeah, suddenly no ethics no cops, no restraints of any kind! Woo-hoo!

"Evolution is a religion..."

Okay, so prove it's a religion, before you continue with that thought.

"...which enables people to justify writing their own rules."

Hey, I said prove the first clause before continuing, dammit!

"The sin of Adam was that he did not want to obey the rules God set but do his own will."

That's one of the myriad ways to describe the Genesis myth, yes. And this fable has what to do with science?

"He rebelled against God,..."

Again one interpretation of the legend.

"... and we all suffer from this same sin: rebellion against the absolute authority."

Okay, Ken, you're still just jerking us off with your interpretation of Genesis, now. Totally irrelevant to your "evolution is religion" claim. You have assumed that your mythical Adam rebelled against you mythic deity. Neither persons are in evidence, nor is the rebellion, but you go from that to blithely saying everyone is still involved in this unevidenced rebellion.

"Evolution has become the so-called 'scientific' justification for people to continue in this rebellion against God.

What God? What rebellion? Damn, Ken, I repeat: You still have given us no evidence of either!

"The Bible tells us in the Book of Genesis that there is a true and reliable account of the origin and early history of life on earth."

Okay: The Bible says the Bible is correct. Check, but no points for that curricular logic, either, Kenny me boyo.

"Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science and history upon it, all the evidence from the living animals and plants, the fossils, and the cultures fits."

Please list these "scientists" who beat the round pegs of scientific and historical fact to fit into the square holes of the Bible. Because I'd like to talk to these guys about the Scientific Method.

"This confirms that the Bible really is the Word of God and can be trusted totally."

Does your pronoun "this" refer to your unevidenced growing community of pseudo-scientists? Man, is that ever a leap of faith! You got nothing, Ham. Sit down, shut up, and take your meds!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  21:58:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
Thanks for the clarity, HM. You gotta love that "Evolution is a religion and religions are stupid and illogical, therefore you must believe in MY religion!" logic.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  22:27:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
There really are people who fervently believe that without the fear of God's Judgement to restrain them, they would be mother-killers, infant-eaters and father-rapers. We've had a couple of them right here in these forums (someone who isn't on his "ignore list" might want to ask GK Paul about that, might be interesting). If there's one good thing that Fundamentalist Christianity has done, it's to keep those would-be sociopaths on a tight leash.

Of course, Ken Ham is just trying to convince his flock that it's the atheists who are the sociopaths, but he only does so by showing us just what kind of person he would be "without rules" to bind him. The prisons aren't full of atheists, Kenny!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2006 :  23:27:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

Thanks for the clarity, HM. You gotta love that "Evolution is a religion and religions are stupid and illogical, therefore you must believe in MY religion!" logic.

Sorry if I made myself clear. I usually don't do that kind of thing.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  00:06:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Ken Ham is a lying piece of human fecal matter.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  00:28:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

Ken Ham is a lying piece of human fecal matter.



But otherwise, he's cool, right?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  00:44:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

...human fecal matter.
You might be giving him too much credit with that "human" adjective.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  01:05:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
I don't know Dave what exactly is "human" fecal matter. Is it the fecal matter of humans? Fecal matter with human like traits but from another source, say like a Bull?

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25997 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  01:23:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Either way, I think it's too much. Even if you consider Dude's phrase to mean "imagine the lowliest of pond scum physiologically capable of producing what might be called 'fecal matter', and their waste products posing as a human," I think it might be too much.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/02/2006 :  02:47:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by moakley

quote:
Increasing numbers of scientists are realizing that when you take the Bible as your basis and build your models of science and history upon it, all the evidence from the living animals and plants, the fossils, and the cultures fits. This confirms that the Bible really is the Word of God and can be trusted totally.

Who are these scientists? And why do they continue to refer to themselves as scientists when it is likely that they are no longer engaging in the hard work of science?

As Kil queried in another thread, "When you step back and revel at god's creation are you still capable of asking the tough question and persue the answers?"

Though it might not have been a query, could have been a statement.

I read somewhere (no reference, sorry) that there are maybe some few hundred YEC PhDs. Of course, those include theologians and so forth. Don't know what percentage are doing the biological sciences, nor how many are named Steve.

So very many out of... how many scientists? Hundreds of thousands? A million or so? I too, would like to see a list, but I'll bet that ain't on even if he has one.

It's an old talking point -- they've all used it. Indeed, Dembski bleats it out every now and again, perhaps thinking that if he says it enough, God or the Easter Bunny, or some-damn'-body'll make it so.

Ham is evoluting along nicely. Soon, he'll be a fully-fledged, Complete Idiot rather than a mere Halfwit.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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