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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2006 :  19:56:23  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
The following story happened to me today, although I've changed the names. I was teaching a class full of 6th graders (mostly liberal Christians, with one Jew and one Muslim), and one kid asked if I celebrate Christmas, after which this conversation and event ensued:

ME: No.
TINA: Hanukah?
ME: No.
TINA: Kwanzaa?
ME: *sigh* No.
TINA: Then what do you celebrate?
ME: HumanLight.
TINA: What's HumanLight?
ME: Kwanzaa for atheists.
LEILA: What's an atheist?
ME: We don't believe in God.
LEILA: Nothing?
ME: No gods, no souls. Nothing supernatural.
TINA (smiles, turns, and shouts): Hey, Teddy! Martha doesn't believe in God!
TEDDY: You don't believe in God?
ME: Nope.
TEDDY: Sweet, me neither. (offers me a high five)

How often does an atheist in America get that reaction? In a classroom no less! It really is a shame that public schools don't do religious neutrality by talking openly about all religions instead of talking about none of them. Clearly kids are thinking about and want to talk about these issues.

(Edited to add the last sentence.)


"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com


Edited by - marfknox on 12/18/2006 19:58:23

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2006 :  20:32:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
I so envy your position! Damn, that's great!

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  04:17:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
Kudos to the puppy atheist!

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  04:26:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Would that other learning institutions were as enlightened! If that had taken place in one of our public schools, you would have been out of a job before the class ended.

Well said, and well done!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  05:23:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
That was just so cool! Congrats, Marf!

I agree with you that religion should be discussed in schools, in a fair and neutral manner. But I think that the dangers of controlling such discussions (and all discussion is dangerous1) is what keeps public schools in the "neutrality is ignoring everyone equally" camp. And, to be honest, a fair, neutral discussion of religion would not be the easiest of things to present.

But an easy and safe education is never the best.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/19/2006 05:24:55
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  08:27:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
For some reason this thread reminded me of email I got the other day:


For Our Socially Liberated Friends:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for
an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress,
non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday,
practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion
of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the
religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice
not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a
fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated
recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, but
not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose
contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that
America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America
in the Western Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color,
age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting
is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with
no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher
to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others,
and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion
of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the
usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the
issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and
warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish
at the sole discretion of the wisher.


For Our Socially Conservative Friends:

Here's wishing all of You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Wendy
SFN Regular

USA
614 Posts

Posted - 12/19/2006 :  08:36:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Wendy a Yahoo! Message Send Wendy a Private Message
Because so many schools don't seem to be able to teach even fundamentals to all students, I am opposed to religious and/or moral discussion in public elementary schools. I fear discussion would all to soon become instruction.

That having been said, it does my heart good to know that the conversation you had can take place with no negative repercussions. Hurray!

Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy afternoon.
-- Susan Ertz
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 12/20/2006 :  15:32:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

For some reason this thread reminded me of email I got the other day:


For Our Socially Liberated Friends:

Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for
an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress,
non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday,
practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion
of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the
religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice
not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a
fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated
recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, but
not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose
contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that
America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America
in the Western Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color,
age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.
By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting
is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with
no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher
to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others,
and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion
of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the
usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the
issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and
warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish
at the sole discretion of the wisher.





Thanks Bill. Same to you.

The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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