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McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2007 :  09:54:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well Neurosis you said Intuition/feeling is worthless. Don't tell that to Professional poker players like Doyle Brunson who has 10 world champion titles. HE believes strongly in having a "feel" for the game. Whereas a logical genius like prolific poker author David Sklansky seldom gets to the final table in tournaments. Oh by the way Brunson is a Christian who looks on poker as a sport.

And would you say a homing pigeon uses more feel or logic to find his way home.



GK PAul, when you're already deep in a hole, you should dig up, not deeper. You're showing even more of your lack of understanding of any type of science. The least you could have done is a quick "Wiki" search on homing pigeons to learn that studies have been done to try and determine how they navigate. Interestingly, none of them suggest a "gut feeling" to do it.


Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 01/01/2007 :  10:01:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
So you're wrong again, GK Paul. Face it, you're simply wrong about most everything you claim in these threads. How does it feel to make such a fool of yourself? How can you be so wrong so often and still keep coming back for more? Don't you ever get embarrassed by all that lying, making those unsubstantiated claims, and regularly demonstrating such a serious lack of knowledge?
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/02/2007 :  11:18:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well Neurosis you said Intuition/feeling is worthless. Don't tell that to Professional poker players like Doyle Brunson who has 10 world champion titles. HE believes strongly in having a "feel" for the game. Whereas a logical genius like prolific poker author David Sklansky seldom gets to the final table in tournaments. Oh by the way Brunson is a Christian who looks on poker as a sport.

And would you say a homing pigeon uses more feel or logic to find his way home.



Professional poker players do not use intuition to play, they use past experience. I play poker myself. What may feel like intuition is really a background calculation the brain makes based on what it remembers. Common people say they have a feeling, but there is a neurocorrelate for it.

In any case, you should talk to the less than professional poker players and see how their feelings helped them loose their house and wife and kids, then you can advocate intuition. Intuition fails far more than succeeds. Look to the investors around 1929 for a good example. Or even last week. Everyone feels good about their own decisions until it all blows up in his face.

Homing Pigeons use a mechanism that is easy to mess with by artificially altering the magnetic feilds it is surrounding in. Also, you can look at whales who often get confused using their mechanism and swim to the beach committing mass suicide. Yet, another argument against your position.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2007 :  06:35:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well Neurosis you said Intuition/feeling is worthless. Don't tell that to Professional poker players like Doyle Brunson who has 10 world champion titles. HE believes strongly in having a "feel" for the game. Whereas a logical genius like prolific poker author David Sklansky seldom gets to the final table in tournaments. Oh by the way Brunson is a Christian who looks on poker as a sport.

And would you say a homing pigeon uses more feel or logic to find his way home.



Professional poker players do not use intuition to play, they use past experience. I play poker myself. What may feel like intuition is really a background calculation the brain makes based on what it remembers. Common people say they have a feeling, but there is a neurocorrelate for it.

In any case, you should talk to the less than professional poker players and see how their feelings helped them loose their house and wife and kids, then you can advocate intuition. Intuition fails far more than succeeds. Look to the investors around 1929 for a good example. Or even last week. Everyone feels good about their own decisions until it all blows up in his face.

Homing Pigeons use a mechanism that is easy to mess with by artificially altering the magnetic feilds it is surrounding in. Also, you can look at whales who often get confused using their mechanism and swim to the beach committing mass suicide. Yet, another argument against your position.

So your saying the education major amd best selling author (Brunson) is using the wrong word when he talks about a "feel" for the game.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2007 :  07:44:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
So your saying the education major amd best selling author (Brunson) is using the wrong word when he talks about a "feel" for the game.


No. He may be using layman's term for a very complex process (which he may have no knowledge about) that involve background calculations and correlations of past experiences.
There is nothing simple about how the brain works.

You should see some videos of Derren Brown. He'd blow you away, especially with the mind-tricks on you through the TV.

Just because a feat is percieved as fantastic doesn't mean it's supernatural. And just because he is an education major (and a bast selling author) doesn't mean he knows what he is talking about. Ann Coulter is also a best selling author, but she is so full of shit it's beyond my understanding why anyone would take her seriously, so full of shit there are books written on how full of it she is.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1882 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2007 :  10:57:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GeeMack

So you're wrong again, GK Paul. Face it, you're simply wrong about most everything you claim in these threads. How does it feel to make such a fool of yourself? How can you be so wrong so often and still keep coming back for more? Don't you ever get embarrassed by all that lying, making those unsubstantiated claims, and regularly demonstrating such a serious lack of knowledge?

I wonder how many of these assertions made by GK Paul are simply being repeated from sermons that he has heard. After all such authority figures would not lie. Nor make any effort to validate.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2007 :  11:50:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well Neurosis you said Intuition/feeling is worthless. Don't tell that to Professional poker players like Doyle Brunson who has 10 world champion titles. HE believes strongly in having a "feel" for the game. Whereas a logical genius like prolific poker author David Sklansky seldom gets to the final table in tournaments. Oh by the way Brunson is a Christian who looks on poker as a sport.

And would you say a homing pigeon uses more feel or logic to find his way home.



Professional poker players do not use intuition to play, they use past experience. I play poker myself. What may feel like intuition is really a background calculation the brain makes based on what it remembers. Common people say they have a feeling, but there is a neurocorrelate for it.

In any case, you should talk to the less than professional poker players and see how their feelings helped them loose their house and wife and kids, then you can advocate intuition. Intuition fails far more than succeeds. Look to the investors around 1929 for a good example. Or even last week. Everyone feels good about their own decisions until it all blows up in his face.

Homing Pigeons use a mechanism that is easy to mess with by artificially altering the magnetic feilds it is surrounding in. Also, you can look at whales who often get confused using their mechanism and swim to the beach committing mass suicide. Yet, another argument against your position.

So your saying the education major amd best selling author (Brunson) is using the wrong word when he talks about a "feel" for the game.



Dr. Mabuse pretty much summed it up.

What I am really saying is that even if he did have a true "feel" for the game, it would still be only a feeling. Nothing special at all, and certainly not worth basing our understanding of the world around us on.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  04:47:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
Well congratulations Mr. Moakley you got on my list of people I don't respond to. Heck, maybe that's what some people want. Than they don't have to worry about a rebuttal.

Just for the record I don't respond to Fripp, GeeMack, Dave W., Half Mooner, Starman, McQ, and Moakley, for reasons I've already mentioned.
I did make one exception 2 weeks ago because I used a Dave W. post to answer a question.

The more people throw rude personal comments my way the more encouraged I get that I'm close to the truth. It's the serious polite rebuttals that concern me the most.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  05:07:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
To Neurosis, just for the record the 2007 World Book says that we really don't know how homing pigeons find their way back home (sometimes over a thousand miles over unfamiliar land). They say there is no real evidence how they do it...

But even if it was by magnetism, they would still have to "feel" the invisible force and thus your claim that feeling is worthless would not apply to the pigeons important skill of finding its way home.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1882 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  06:09:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well congratulations Mr. Moakley you got on my list of people I don't respond to.

From my perspective being on or off your list will be essentially the same. What is it that you really need Mr. Scarecrow?
Mind you, I do not believe a diploma will help.
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Heck, maybe that's what some people want. Than they don't have to worry about a rebuttal.


Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  06:33:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
But even if it was by magnetism, they would still have to "feel" the invisible force and thus your claim that feeling is worthless would not apply to the pigeons important skill of finding its way home.

They would use their senses. Some of it is a magnetic sense like a built in compass but why couldn't it be a combination of several senses, like we use hearing and touch to "feel" our way through a room after we've been blindfolded. It's not like the pigeon flies in a straight line...

Is the 2007 World Book the only book you read? How about gather information from more than one source, it might be wrong.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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GeeMack
SFN Regular

USA
1093 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  07:56:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GeeMack a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul...

Well congratulations Mr. Moakley you got on my list of people I don't respond to. Heck, maybe that's what some people want. Than they don't have to worry about a rebuttal.

Just for the record I don't respond to Fripp, GeeMack, Dave W., Half Mooner, Starman, McQ, and Moakley, for reasons I've already mentioned.
I did make one exception 2 weeks ago because I used a Dave W. post to answer a question.

The more people throw rude personal comments my way the more encouraged I get that I'm close to the truth. It's the serious polite rebuttals that concern me the most.
Now that's rich, GK Paul. You think you've achieved some kind of victory each time you shove your head further into the sand. Your dishonesty is so deeply ingrained that you barely flinch each time you use your own willful ignorance to justify continuing to wallow in your state of ignorance.

The reply by moakley, the one you consider rude, is just another honest assessment of your apparent inability to be rational. Every person you claim to be ignoring has given more than a few serious, polite rebuttals, yet you still feign ignorance (that's pretending to ignore, a lie). And of course you refuse to understand that, because all too often those serious, polite rebuttals would require you to rethink your blind faith in magical beings.

Yes, blaming others for your own ignorance is just another lie, GK Paul. You shouldn't need to be reminded that if your bogeyman is real, you've bought yourself a ticket to Hell.
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Fripp
SFN Regular

USA
727 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  08:03:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fripp a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Just for the record I don't respond to Fripp, GeeMack, Dave W., Half Mooner, Starman, McQ, and Moakley, for reasons I've already mentioned.



(in my best Homer Simpson voice)

WOO HOO! I'm Number One! In your face, all you others!!! Nya nya nya nya.

BTW, moakley you really must ease up on your rampant rudeness. It took me at least seven times before I could almost kind of see what the snivelling little turd construed as rudeness.

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"

"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?"
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  08:05:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

To Neurosis, just for the record the 2007 World Book says that we really don't know how homing pigeons find their way back home (sometimes over a thousand miles over unfamiliar land). They say there is no real evidence how they do it...

But even if it was by magnetism, they would still have to "feel" the invisible force and thus your claim that feeling is worthless would not apply to the pigeons important skill of finding its way home.



Actually, no. I am aware that we are not completely sure how the mechanism works, but the "feeling" of it they do is not different than the feeling that you get touching a wall to help you when blindfolded. It is a totally natural mechanism.

Also, the homing pigeon is a bad analogy for you to use for you are suggesting that knowledge can be gained by simply going with your 'gut'. Obviously, science does not work this way for good reason. People who rely on their 'gut' fail alot more than succeed. Even in your poker comparison or my stock market analogy.

Invisible things are not "unfeelable". The wind is invisible isn't it? Is it magic that you can determine the direction the wind is blowing?

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Edited by - Neurosis on 01/05/2007 08:12:36
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13458 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2007 :  09:28:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well congratulations Mr. Moakley you got on my list of people I don't respond to. Heck, maybe that's what some people want. Than they don't have to worry about a rebuttal.

Just for the record I don't respond to Fripp, GeeMack, Dave W., Half Mooner, Starman, McQ, and Moakley, for reasons I've already mentioned.
I did make one exception 2 weeks ago because I used a Dave W. post to answer a question.

Having attempted a debate with you before GK I haven't bothered with this thread much. I have better things to do then to spit into a hot wind. But I read what Moakley posted and I must say, it sure is easy to get on that list of yours.
quote:
GK Paul:
The more people throw rude personal comments my way the more encouraged I get that I'm close to the truth.

Well, that's a bit self serving wouldn't you say? But hey, whatever gets you through the night…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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