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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 01/12/2007 : 15:00:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
fire-bomb them.
Peace
Joe
I'm astounded by the dichotomy. Is this a text-book case of doublethink? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 17:40:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
You Americans really need to do something about your president before he lands you in real deep shit.
The problem is that somewhere between 35-40% of the public still support this retarded man, and they will vote for whomever his party puts up for election in 2008.
Just look at Joe here. He is desperately trying to justify our attack on an Iranian consulate. Joe, if it is called a consulate, or an embassy, then it is essentially the same thing. There is no legal difference. And OF COURSE Iran has an embassy in Iraq now, the shiite rule Iran and have deep ties to Iraqi Shiites.
And Half, I hope you aren't trying to excuse or justify our attack on the Iranian consulate. Just becuse Iran once did it to us does not make it ok for us to do it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 19:00:58 [Permalink]
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Dude stated:quote:
And Half, I hope you aren't trying to excuse or justify our attack on the Iranian consulate. Just becuse Iran once did it to us does not make it ok for us to do it.
Nope, just enjoying the irony a bit. I hope you may share the pleasure.
Also, it turns out that technically (and technicalities get all the marbles in a case like this) no US raid of a diplomatic property took place at all in Irbil!:quote:
Jan. 12, 2007, 5:38PM
U.S. contradicts Iraqi foreign minister
WASHINGTON — U.S.-led forces entered an Iranian building in Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq because information linked the facility to Revolutionary Guards and other Iranian elements engaging in violent activities in Iraq, the State Department said Friday.
Deputy spokesman Tom Casey said there was no truth to reports that Iran was carrying out legitimate diplomatic activity at the site.
"It did not have the standing of a consulate nor did it have any other international diplomatic standing to speak of," Casey said.
Iranian Revolutionary Guards have been a key element of armed support for Iran's Islamic government since it took power in 1979.
Casey's comments contradict Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, a Kurd, who said Friday that the Iranians were working in a "liaison office" in Irbil that had government approval and was in the process of being approved as a consulate.
. . .
So, even with the disagreement, the Iraqi Foreign Minister is saying the building wasn't diplomatically recognized by his government at the time of the raid. So, no invasion of Iran!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 19:43:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
fire-bomb them.
Peace
Joe
I'm astounded by the dichotomy. Is this a text-book case of doublethink?
No, like Hamburg or Tokyo in WWII. Incindeary devices. Common "nickname for them.
Peace
Joe |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 19:44:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
You Americans really need to do something about your president before he lands you in real deep shit.
The problem is that somewhere between 35-40% of the public still support this retarded man, and they will vote for whomever his party puts up for election in 2008.
Just look at Joe here. He is desperately trying to justify our attack on an Iranian consulate. Joe, if it is called a consulate, or an embassy, then it is essentially the same thing. There is no legal difference. And OF COURSE Iran has an embassy in Iraq now, the shiite rule Iran and have deep ties to Iraqi Shiites.
And Half, I hope you aren't trying to excuse or justify our attack on the Iranian consulate. Just becuse Iran once did it to us does not make it ok for us to do it.
Well, dosen't appear (at this time) to be a consulate, just a bunch of Republican Guard scumbag terrorist trainers that they should have shot instead.
And no, they have some diplomatic relations, but there is no embassy.
Peace
Joe |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 19:57:51 [Permalink]
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Oh, the hypocrisy, the hypocrisy! Here, from Iran's Islamic Republic News Agency, the first reaction I've found from Iran, with the Iranian Foreign Minister pleading diplomatic immunity, perhaps even with a straight face: quote:
Iraqi, Swiss ambassadors summoned to Iranian Foreign Ministry
Tehran, 11 Jan, IRNA
Iranian foreign ministry on Thursday summoned the Iraqi and Swiss ambassador to Tehran and called for release of Iranian employees arrested by US troops during their raid ealier in the day against Iranian consulate building in the Kurish city of Arbil in northern Iraq.
According to information department of the ministry, head of the Persian Gulf department of the ministry in a meeting Thursday evening with Iraqi ambassador strongly protested to the US troops action against Iranian consulate in Arbil and detention of five Iranian employees.
Seyyed Jalal Firouznia said that Iran expects Iraqi government to take swift action to release the detainees and condemn this military raid and does not let the US harm bilateral ties by taking illegal and stuborn actions.
. . .
[Misspelling are IRNA's.]
Plus this: quote:
Tehrani worshipers condemn US raid on Iranian consulate in Arbil
Tehran, Jan 12, IRNA
A group of Tehrani Friday prayers worshipers condemned the US Military raid on Iranian consulate building in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil.
Chanting slogans such as "Death to arrogance","Death to Israel", "Death to US", the demonstrators called for immediate release of Iranians detained during the operation.
The US troops in Iraq attacked representative office of Iran in the northern Iraqi city of Arbil on Thursday morning.
Based on reliable sources, the American forces disarmed the guard of the place around 5:00 am and then broke into the building.
Upon entering the office, they arrested five employees, smashed the furniture and took away the documents to an unidentified destination without giving any explanation.
In objection to such an illegal measure by the American troops, the Tehrani worshipers called for a sanction on US goods by all Moslems around the world.
[My emphasis.]
Note adherence to the official party line that it was a "consolate."
And I repeat again, our "canary in the mine" for an invasion of Iran is the sudden resignation of top US generals. Unless and until that happens, don't get too worked up.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/12/2007 20:10:57 |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 20:32:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
The problem is that somewhere between 35-40% of the public still support this retarded man, and they will vote for whomever his party puts up for election in 2008.
Just look at Joe here. He is desperately trying to justify our attack on an Iranian consulate. Joe, if it is called a consulate, or an embassy, then it is essentially the same thing. There is no legal difference. And OF COURSE Iran has an embassy in Iraq now, the shiite rule Iran and have deep ties to Iraqi Shiites.
There's some great skeptisim for you. They said it, must be true. No questions, just assumptions on what I write which you have already formed a prejudice against do to your dislike of the situation.
Let's look at Shiite. You are correct that Iran is Shiite. The majority of Iraq is Shiite, the same majority that was barbaricaly repressed by the Sunni minority under Saddam. The Shiite that look to Iran for guidance on religion. Why is a consulate for Iran in Kurdish controlled Iraq? If the Kurds actually want them there, they must be chocking down some bitterness. What, after several hundred years of being treated like little bastard dogs and all...... Yeah, I'm skeptical. I did have to wonder if it was a diplomatic mission, or a terrorist training mission. Looks like it was a diplomatic mission, and probably both.
So you will have to forgive my initial skeptisim of a report that states that an Iranian consulate operating in Kurdish territory was attacked just because the media said it was.
And I already showed a link to the treaty, with the statement that the treaty goes across all classes.
I know you are in to the party-ticket, and strategic voting, but don't assume I am.
Peace
Joe |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2007 : 20:35:37 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Sometimes I find myself wishing Iran did indeed have nukes to employ. Detonate one if only to made a statement.
You Americans really need to do something about your president before he lands you in real deep shit. This latest attack on Iranian sovreignty is a f-ing bad warning sign.
I don't like that crazy theocracy, but hell, you need to teach your leaders to mind your own business.
Yeah, I know. Reminds me of those Parisians in te 40's.
Hitler, he's no problem. He just needs some love. Hey honey, look... The German Army is even throwing us a parade......
Peace
Joe |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 14:25:33 [Permalink]
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| I'll salute American troops when they eventually parade in my home town. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 14:59:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I'll salute American troops when they eventually parade in my home town.
To know when that's about to happen, watch for the resignations of US generals with Swedish surnames.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 15:06:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I'll salute American troops when they eventually parade in my home town.
That has got to be the stupidest thing you have ever said (mayne not, but the stupidest I have read.... Unless you are talking about us bailling you out........
Peace
Joe |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 15:34:49 [Permalink]
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| I often wonder about those who use the 'Hitler'-defense to justify military action against Iran. I have to wonder, how comparable are the two situations? If I look at the situations, I don't see that much of a comparison between them. If anything, I see more of a comparison between the current actions in boycotting Iran with the circumstances that helped Hitler into power in the first place. I had a big interest in WWII when I was a kid, although admittedly my biggest interest was in the war itself rather then the events leading up to it (and the air battles, gotta love the battle for britain). But I really wonder, how much do those who make the comparison know about the circumstances that lead up to the situation in the first place? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 15:57:54 [Permalink]
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The only comparrisson I am trying to make is that of blood-debt. Hitler could have been stopped much sooner, and the loss of life less. Same with governments of Iran and Syria.
I am not a WWII expert. From what I remember reading, from long ago,was it was not so much the sanctions as the stipulations placed on them after WWI. Hitler bought to them a sense of nationalism and pride that they were sorely lacking. I a not sure how much of the reperations they actually paid, but from what I remember, until Hitler, they had a very depressed economy.
Now, once again, in case you missed it, :) .....I do not support acts of war without a formal decleraton of war. I do not like our war powers act, the constitution makes it plain about war. I am of the opinion if countries want to go quietly into the night, that is their right. I feel no need to protect other countries from their own stupidity. There is enough stuidity in ours to worry about.
Peace
Joe |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 17:09:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
The only comparrisson I am trying to make is that of blood-debt. Hitler could have been stopped much sooner, and the loss of life less. Same with governments of Iran and Syria.
I am not a WWII expert. From what I remember reading, from long ago,was it was not so much the sanctions as the stipulations placed on them after WWI. Hitler bought to them a sense of nationalism and pride that they were sorely lacking. I a not sure how much of the reperations they actually paid, but from what I remember, until Hitler, they had a very depressed economy.
Indeed, reperations were never paid. One of the main problems was that before Hitler, due to the sanctions, they could not be paid in the first place. This made the German state unable to recover, leading to increased inflation and unemployment. The humilation of the peace-treaties forced upon Germany didn't help either. Because of this, Hitler could gain power in the first place, because the sanctions stipulated detrimented economic growth and humiliation. Indeed, Hitler brougth them a sense of nationalism and pride. My concern in the US's dealings with countries like Iran is that the current way of dealing with them does nothing but enforce the leadership already present, instead of having a policy that could topple those regimes. In my opinion, if history teaches us anything, it is that a country isolated by economic measures becomes more nationalistic and more adherent to the current leadership in that country.
quote:
Now, once again, in case you missed it, :) .....I do not support acts of war without a formal decleraton of war. I do not like our war powers act, the constitution makes it plain about war. I am of the opinion if countries want to go quietly into the night, that is their right. I feel no need to protect other countries from their own stupidity. There is enough stuidity in ours to worry about.
Peace
Joe
The question that irked me to comment is how much a guideline WWII can be. You commented that 'they' know how to get in and restore order then, but could that have been done in Iraq? I doubt it. Unlike Germany, which had a form of unity for at least half a century at that time, Iraq is more like the Balkan. I ragtag of different populations forced into one country, with no real sense of unity. I don't think anything would have prevented the violence we see there at this point. At least if America would have stayed out of it, Saddam would have died and then, possibly, an internal war much the same as the current one would have started. Only then at least the West wouldn't have gotten the blame for it.
Ah, but I'm ranting far off topic here. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2007 : 19:31:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I'll salute American troops when they eventually parade in my home town.
That has got to be the stupidest thing you have ever said (mayne not, but the stupidest I have read.... Unless you are talking about us bailling you out........
Go suck on a lemon.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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