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 Habeas corpus anyone?
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  12:45:10  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Wish I could post this in the humor section:
quote:
There is no expressed grant of habeas in the Constitution; there's a prohibition against taking it away,” Gonzales said.

Gonzales's remark left Specter, the committee's ranking Republican, stammering.

“Wait a minute,” Specter interjected. “The Constitution says you can't take it away except in case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn't that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there's a rebellion or invasion?”

Gonzales continued, “The Constitution doesn't say every individual in the United States or citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas corpus. It doesn't say that. It simply says the right shall not be suspended” except in cases of rebellion or invasion.
That is the U.S. Attorney General speaking. The head of the United States Department of Justice.

McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  12:59:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Starman

Wish I could post this in the humor section:
quote:
There is no expressed grant of habeas in the Constitution; there's a prohibition against taking it away,” Gonzales said.

Gonzales's remark left Specter, the committee's ranking Republican, stammering.

“Wait a minute,” Specter interjected. “The Constitution says you can't take it away except in case of rebellion or invasion. Doesn't that mean you have the right of habeas corpus unless there's a rebellion or invasion?”

Gonzales continued, “The Constitution doesn't say every individual in the United States or citizen is hereby granted or assured the right of habeas corpus. It doesn't say that. It simply says the right shall not be suspended” except in cases of rebellion or invasion.
That is the U.S. Attorney General speaking. The head of the United States Department of Justice.





Boy oh, boy. I wish this was in the humor section too. I was hoping it was a piece of "Moonscape News".

So where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  14:04:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
The constitution does not guarentee habeas corpus ad subjiciendum. But it does guarantee due process and a speedy trial. Also, the constitution prevents the government from restricting peoples writ of habeas corpus, thus no one could ever right a law that prevents habeas corpus ad subjiciendum or overturn the laws that grant habeas corpus with other laws, as they would then be preventative measures.

His statements were dumb. I am surprised he would make such a statement both due to the public eye and the inability for him to base another point on those statements.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
Edited by - Neurosis on 01/19/2007 14:05:33
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26016 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  14:32:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Similarly, the First Amendment doesn't grant anyone the right to free practice of religion, it just bars Congress from ever prohibiting that right.

And actually, Article One, section 9 of the Constitution only bars Congress (again) from suspending habeas corpus.

Gonzales is obviously speaking from an executive-branch point of view, and the Constitution does not specifically bar the President from suspending habeas corpus (or from denying people free exercise of religion), nor does it say that the President must grant such rights to the citizens.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  15:02:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO! Responding to General Gonzales and his thoughts on the 'Bring the Body' right for those charged with a crime: It's clear he's been playing too much bridge with Antoni Scalia.

Pass!

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
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--Oscar Wilde

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Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 01/19/2007 15:02:45
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  20:22:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
And Gonzales may be the next Bush appointee to the Supremes. ::Shudder::

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  21:05:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message
YO!

quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

And Gonzales may be the next Bush appointee to the Supremes. ::Shudder::



OY sez: 'Shudder' is a good word to describe this fellow, Mr. Mooner. For anyone who listens to The Stephanie Miller Show mornings on radio: whenever they do a bit that lambasts Gonzales, they play this real spooky horror music in the background. Also, I saw Mr. Gonzales on Jim Lehrer's News Hour this evening. He was interviewed by Ray Swarez. The little dude has an icy stare not unlike the great Bela Lugosi. But Bela was an actor.

OY!

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  21:19:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
These poor, forgotten Amendments.... Everyone forgets them:
Amendment IX:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Seems to me that it would apply to this.

Amendment X:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Ah, those beautful bastardized rights of hte states.......

Also, nowhere in Article II, section 2 (presidential powers), does it give the power to the president to suspend Habeus Corpus. It was not delegated to the United States by the COnstitution.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace
Joe
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2007 :  22:02:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
Actually, Is that even clear enough in those two amendments?

Amendment IX says (in plain english):
A list of rights in the constitution should not be construed to disparge other rights already granted.

In no way would denying habeas corpus deny rights other than habeas corpus, nor does anything in the constitution guarantee habeas corpus. In fact, it only prevents congress from denying habeas corpus without just cause (being rebellion). This does not interfere with other rights either.

Amendment X says {in plain english):
The powers not granted to the US or prohibited to states in the constitution, are reserved by to the states.

Again, it simply guarantees that anything not outlined in the constitution specifically for the US is reserved to the states control. This says nothing about rights being granted by omission or default.

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2007 :  07:52:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
Amendment IX is my weak one, and have not done enough reading on it and hte history behind it to contradict you.

However, Amendment X specifically gives the majority of the power to the individual states. The constitution dosen't say what the federal government can't do, it specifically tells it what it can, and that which is not given to the Feds is the realm of the states. It's really quiet beautiful.

The right to suspend habeas corpus is granted to Congress, not to the president.

Peace
Joe
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