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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  15:59:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
The problem is that if it looks "sciency" enough and has enough "truthiness", then the people who are prone to magical thinking will eat it up and the minority left will once again have to climb a hill....

They are going to attempt to "win" in the media and public eye, but hopefully that will backfire as it has so many times in the political arena.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  20:34:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
I blogged about this crap the other day (Jan 25th), explaining how quizzlestick's examples of I.D. peer-reviewed testable claims were, for want of a better word, wrong. Would you believe it, Kazmer gave me a comment about it. I here present some of the better things he had to say:

quote:
To make Professor Rosen's point more understandable for Håkan, any comprehensive understanding of an oak tree must come from the knowledge of that system's input and output, namely from its acorn, and similarly any comprehensible understanding of the universe must come from the knowledge of that cosmic system's input and output, namely from man—or, if you will, from Christ.


quote:
Similarly, if we know that a man constitutes the seed of the universe, then we can predict with confidence that man constitutes the cosmic system's end product or output as well. This prediction is falsifiable, provided Håkan and evolutionists of his type can demonstrate that intelligence above and beyond human intelligence exists.

quote:
Until they manage to provide that evidence Christ's teaching that he constitutes the cosmic system's input and output, beginning and end, or Alpha and Omega, remains valid and sound scientifically or otherwise.



One of the ID-friendly commenters at overwhelmingevidence had this to say about Kazmer:
quote:
.....What can I say other that I am glad he is on our side.

I think most people here would agree with this statement. With friends like these...


METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  21:20:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks

I blogged about this crap the other day (Jan 25th), explaining how quizzlestick's examples of I.D. peer-reviewed testable claims were, for want of a better word, wrong. Would you believe it, Kazmer gave me a comment about it.
Although his comment is the same-- or at least it starts the same-- as he gave in Quizzlestick's blog:
quote:
Håkan Rosén (Hawk) is correct, American Chronicle is not a peer-reviewed publication, but neither is the Bible, nor most of the publications we have. So what?

Evidently in the brainwashed mind of this student of Darwinian biology exclusively papers in peer-reviewed scientific journals constitute pure rationality and the fountainhead of understanding.
The irony that Kazmer misses (is he too busy thinking about cosmic seed?) is that Quizzlestick implied quite strongly that ID ideas did appear in peer-reviewed publications, and offered as proof this stupid American Chronicle. And by now, everyone knows that if you can write in English and properly use email, you can be published in said American Chronicle.

Yes, instead of pointing out to Quizzlestick that no, the AC isn't peer-reviewed, Kazmer attacks everyone else who points this out. Instead, for Kazmer, Quizzlestick is some rare mind as only he understands the wonderful ideas of Kazmer! The fact that Quizzlestick has no earthly idea what peer-review means is unimportant. After all, as Kazmer notes, the Bible isn't peer reviewed either. And that's important because... well, it isn't. But when you don't want to criticize the only person who understands your ideas, it's best just to obfuscate and attack everyone else instead.

The real question is who's the bigger moron: Quizzlestick, for buying into Kazmer's shit, or Kazmer, for genuinely thinking that Quizzlestick is smart for buying into his own shit?
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 02/01/2007 21:21:33
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 02/01/2007 :  21:41:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Hawks quoted Kazmer

Similarly, if we know that a man constitutes the seed of the universe, then we can predict with confidence that man constitutes the cosmic system's end product or output as well. This prediction is falsifiable, provided Håkan and evolutionists of his type can demonstrate that intelligence above and beyond human intelligence exists.
Wow. How many unsupported assertions must be accepted as true in order for that "prediction" to be testable in principle (not in practice, but just theoretically)?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 02/02/2007 :  01:24:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I think that "man is the seed of the universe" stuff is just laying the ideological foundations for a future galactic imperialism by humanity. Maybe Kazmer's an insider to the very long-range plans of the NeoCons?

Okay, let's suppose he's somehow right. Man is the seed of the universe. The Kazmer must answer: Who is the flower of the universe? Who is the bee, the leaf, the morning dew, the fecal matter that decomposes to become the rich, nourishing soil? Oh, I forgot: He's appointed himself in that last role.

I have a small disagreement with those who identify Kazmer with ID: He clearly attacks it by name, insisting on inserting a "supernatural" designer, whom he names as Jesus. Though the IDers believe all that, too, to them this specificity is like someone letting the Xenu cat out of the Scientology bag.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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skeptic griggsy
Skeptic Friend

USA
77 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  09:54:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit skeptic griggsy's Homepage Send skeptic griggsy a Private Message
The "The Anti-Creationism Handbook" like Talk Origins answers creationist stupidity!

Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism. Logic is the bane of theists.Religion is mythinformation. Reason saves, not a dead Galilean fanatic.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  10:27:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Unfortuantely, Talk-origins is a rubber mat which Creationists bounce right off of. If only it were as simple as explaining it rationally.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  18:02:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
I know I'm a sucker for punishment, but I occasionally read and even comment at overwhelmingevidence. My latest find is again by Quzzlestick who yet again makes some rather amusing comments:

quote:
Not only has evolution been proved false, but I can show that the very concept of evolution presents a clearly self-contradictory logical impossibility.

Ask any evolutionist what the components of evolution are, and quick as a person who has been brainwashed by a false-religion they will list out: Natural Selection, Genetic Inheritance and Genetic Mutation He will explain that all three of these are required to make up evolution, and without each of these evolution could not possibly happen. So that means that evolution itself is irreducibly complex. The evolutionists have actually confessed that evolution could not possibly have evolved!


He/she also write a bit later:

quote:
We at OverwhelmingEvidence.com call upon evolutionists to either justify their beliefs in the harsh light of these truths or give up their racket as soon as possible. These matters are far to important to be entrusted to credulous fools who believe everything they read in a 200 year old science-book.


I recommend people to visit this web-site now and then. It's usually good for a bit of a chuckle. Or nausea, depending on your frame of mind at the time...

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2007 :  18:13:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks
It's usually good for a bit of a chuckle. Or nausea, depending on your frame of mind at the time...

It usually just makes me angry. I can't read that sort of blatent dishonesty without wanting to cave in their skulls with a shovel. I try not to get too worked up, but when someone is that utterly beyond all reason, there aren't many options left. So I try to avoid those cesspools for my own sake.

"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/28/2007 18:15:46
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