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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  00:26:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by smoke

And when we see crows using sticks to do the same, we don't say anything.

Who's we?

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  00:34:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by smoke

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070222/sc_nm/chimps_hunting_dc_1WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chimpanzees have been seen using spears to hunt bush babies


And when we see crows using sticks to do the same, we don't say anything.



If by 'we' you mean the scientific community, then we do. It is not new by any means, but this is. Duh!

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  04:45:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Tool use in birds is so common that it's unremarkable. Here's a few:
quote:
The woodpecker finch, residing on the Galapagos islands, is the most amazing of Darwin's finches. Its talents include tool use as well as tool fabrication. In the above photograph, the finch is prying grubs out of a tree branch with a cactus spine. A woodpecker's long barbed tongue enables it to extract grubs from branches without the assistance of a tool. On the other hand, the woodpecker finch compensates for its short tongue by grasping a cactus spine in its beak and prying grubs out of the branch with the cactus spine. The finch then drops the cactus spine and holds it under its foot while eating the grub. The cactus spine is carried from branch to branch for reuse.
There is also the bearded vulture, sometimes called the "break-bone bird," and some seagulls, among others.

At a truck stop in Brunswick, Ga, the boat-tailed grackles have learned that a quick meal can be found on the bug screens of the big trucks. At any given fueling, the nose of your Kenworth might host a few even as you run the pump. Not tool use exactly, but it demonstrates a lively intelligence on the part of the birds.






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 03/01/2007 04:46:57
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  06:38:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
I would say that there is a small difference between crows (and other animals) using a stick to poke/push food out of a hole or crevice and chimps taking a stick, sharpening the end (which shows knowledge that making the end into a point facilitates the killing), and then stabbing and killing another animal.

But I would say that only because I'm looking at this objectively, and not trying to minimize the impact of the finding because it may have negative consequences for my bronze-age-based religious beliefs.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  08:23:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by smoke

And when we see crows using sticks to do the same, we don't say anything.
Well, you certainly should say something. Crows using sticks as spears with which they hunt and kill bushbabies would be huge news! Why the hell are you keeping this a secret?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  08:32:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Those wacky magpies will use just about any kind of tool


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  08:52:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by smoke

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070222/sc_nm/chimps_hunting_dc_1WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chimpanzees have been seen using spears to hunt bush babies


And when we see crows using sticks to do the same, we don't say anything.



If by 'we' you mean the scientific community, then we do. It is not new by any means, but this is. Duh!

I thought he meant when 'crows using sticks as spears to hunt bushbabies'...

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  10:05:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Fil also wrote:
quote:
... and some seagulls, among others.
Oh, come now, we're not that gullible.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2007 :  11:32:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
There will never be a seagull quarterback in the NFL!

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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