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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
 Posted - 04/05/2002 : 02:18:29 [Permalink]
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You all can relax. Nature has a way of evening things out.
Right on Badger!!!
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When animal populations in the wild get too large, disease comes through and wipes out a swack of the population, Humans, well, we're still on our first round, aren't we?
I've often thought about that too however you are wrong about the 1st round with humnans. There have been pleanty of wars and plagues for humans throughout the centuries. I think the crazzies in the Middle East are working on a round now.
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Years ago, I also read about studies done with rats. If they are kept disease free, and resource rich (enough food and water) they turn nasty on eachother, and kill the weak and the young. Population declines to reasonable levels and the cycle repeats.
I really do see the parallel with humans now, no joke.
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Industrialized countries indeed are experiencing negative growth. Perhaps education and industrialization are the key for us to achieve sustainable population levels. If not, nature will take care of it for us.
We can only have hope.quote:
So what will it matter in a million years?
It will to me!
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2002 : 02:30:47 [Permalink]
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Same here, (although we think crowded is a population of 4 million) people are a hell of a lot ruder. I have noticed this at the local shopping centre or mall as you would know it. People are so self absorbed in themselves they don't give a shit if the knock you or cut you off. Sorry is a word that does'nt get used much anymore.
Don't get me started about courtesy on the roads either.
Well, if it's any compensation, Gezzam. Thanks. At least I know it's not just me who is sensitive to that.
So many people tell me not to let it bother me but my thought is, if you don't say something, no one will know they are being upsetting. Or if they do know, well, then you have to satisfaction of letting off some steam at them. I'm probably too hopeful that maybe someone will realize they are being a jerk if I bring it to their attention. I've gone up to the store clerk to tell them that some little kids were making a mess in the toy department, for example. How can parents let their small children run around like that without watching them. Talk about over population!
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2002 : 06:18:15 [Permalink]
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About the things getting evened out idea. If you take a look at the "World Population Data Sheet 2001" at:
http://www.prb.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Other_reports/2000-2002/sheet1.html
you will find a lot of interesting correaltions.
Many of the coutries that have a high population growth now are good candidates for a massive negative population growth in the near future.
For example the coutry with the highest natural population growth rate is the Palestinian Territory.
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2002 : 08:01:36 [Permalink]
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"I believe a long time ago I heard something about that too. If eventualy the glaciers are used for water, wouldn't that put an imbalance to the Earth rotation?"[Snake]
It's all about weigh distribution, like balancing an auto tire. If too much weight is taken out of the North in the form of glaciers, then Disney would need to build "Artic World" with plenty of infrastructure to replace the weight loss. Just think of the Sleeping Beauty castle at the main entrance, carved entirely out of ice! Mickey and Minnie and Goofy would romp around in parkas and mukluks. The main street trolly car would be an Artic Snow Cat.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, the governors of the Great Lakes states have banded together to prevent water from being siphoned out of the Great Lakes by pipe, aqueduct or tanker. I'm reminded of a painting by Frederick Remington, "The Fight for the Waterhole"
http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/NV--235_F23_A143/PD--10034061/SZ--3/posters.htm?XRFID=547790&selectedCurrency=USD&TKID=542953
I hope it never comes to that.
(:raig |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2002 : 08:35:28 [Permalink]
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I think the most limiting factor to population growth is even simpler than "accessory land". It's WATER.
Fresh, clean, potable, WATER.
If you're a rich nation, your people can pipe the water to where it isn't and then have court fights with the people whose water you're taking. I'm thinking of the classic water usage battles between California and Arizona.
If you're a poor nation then your people migrate to where the water is and keep crowding in until the local water supply is overwhelmed.
Regardless of how crowded it is in New York or L.A., when you turn on the tap, clean water generally flows out. That is simply not the case in many cities in Africa, the Middle East or Asia. Assuming, of course, that the building you're in even HAS plumbing.
(:raig
Um, that's Colorado and California, after all, we Coloradans have the head waters that California takes. Consequently, Colorado is left with near draught conditions because we are required to let so much water flow downstream for other usage. Though I'm sure Arizona would like a portion of the water too.
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...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2002 : 13:54:55 [Permalink]
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Okay, the "Axis of Aqua", then. Colorado, Arizona and California. Just don't go stickin' your sipping straws in my Blessed Lake Erie. :)
(:raig |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 00:54:32 [Permalink]
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Um, that's Colorado and California, after all, we Coloradans have the head waters that California takes. Consequently, Colorado is left with near draught conditions because we are required to let so much water flow downstream for other usage. Though I'm sure Arizona would like a portion of the water too.
I thought you were in Idaho or am I mixing you up with Lisa? In any case, we just had a news report that the snow in the mountians was good this year and as I recall because of that we(in California) don't have to worry about water this summer. I know we've taken water from the Colorado river for years but if you ask me Trish, I'd like to know what they do with it? I think the politicians make up stories to worry people so we'll vote for more money for bonds that aren't really needed.
ON THE OTHER HAND, as we are also told, this is a desert and there is not much water, (not enough for the amount of people that keep coming here). You'd think people would listen to that and not keep moving here.
And don't blame me I was born here, let's just get the foreigners out and back to NY.
No Water for YOU!
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 01:02:49 [Permalink]
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It's all about weigh distribution, like balancing an auto tire. If too much weight is taken out of the North in the form of glaciers, then Disney would need to build "Artic World" with plenty of infrastructure to replace the weight loss. Just think of the Sleeping Beauty castle at the main entrance, carved entirely out of ice!
That actually has been done, not by Disney though. I think in Canada, sorry can't think of the place now but it's an ice hotel that people really do stay in. I think it's only built for one month but it's something that has been going on for years from what I heard.
SO, you see Mes, it can be done.
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Meanwhile, back in the real world, the governors of the Great Lakes states have banded together to prevent water from being siphoned out of the Great Lakes by pipe, aqueduct or tanker (:raig
Good for them, I hope they don't back down or aren't influenced by money.
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 08:03:53 [Permalink]
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I thought you were in Idaho or am I mixing you up with Lisa?
Nope, I live in SD, and its supposed to rain on Wednesday.
Sure, over-population is a problem. A bigger problem is population distribution. Everyone wants to be close to the shops and schools.
My Dad, who lives in NC, has made several trips out here. The first time he visited, he looked around and asked "Where is everybody"?
Lisa
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room. |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 19:37:27 [Permalink]
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The original Icehotel is in northern Lapland, Sweden; it operates from December through April.
There is a newer version in Quebec. That one has only been operating for a few years.
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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Franc28
New Member
29 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 20:00:11 [Permalink]
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Of course, if the governments around the world weren't so hell-bent in stopping genetic engineering, we could help treble the agricultural output of the world, and make overpopulation (which is slowing down anyway because of industrialisation) less of a problem.
But of course we can't expect the irrational masses to understand such a simple fact...
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2002 : 22:34:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Years ago, I also read about studies done with rats. If they are kept disease free, and resource rich (enough food and water) they turn nasty on eachother, and kill the weak and the young. Population declines to reasonable levels and the cycle repeats.
That was done at Stanford back in the late 70's. They didn't turn nasty (well not too nasty) with one another. When the population reached a certain density homosexual behavior increased markedly. To the point where the homosexual comunity protested findings of the experiment.
When the population density reached it's max all the rats stoppped reproducing.
When the levels fell to normal the rats did not resume their normal behavior and even though there was enough food and no disease every last one died.
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
The Preparation of the Gospel |
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 01:05:00 [Permalink]
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When the population density reached it's max all the rats stoppped reproducing.
When the levels fell to normal the rats did not resume their normal behavior and even though there was enough food and no disease every last one died.
I hope this isn't what you are counting on badger 
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law! |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 01:35:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
I thought you were in Idaho or am I mixing you up with Lisa?
Nope, I live in SD, and its supposed to rain on Wednesday.
Sure, over-population is a problem. A bigger problem is population distribution. Everyone wants to be close to the shops and schools.
My Dad, who lives in NC, has made several trips out here. The first time he visited, he looked around and asked "Where is everybody"?
Lisa
SD, Idaho, Wyoming....whatever!!! Cowboys all of you.
It did rain here last night. .01, whoopie!!!
I can never figure that out, why people want to be with or so close to other people. That's not a joke, I really don't understand.
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2002 : 01:45:15 [Permalink]
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"The original Icehotel is in northern Lapland, Sweden; it operates from December through April.
There is a newer version in Quebec. That one has only been operating for a few years."
Thanks, Donnie for that info.
Snake
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Of course, if the governments around the world weren't so hell-bent in stopping genetic engineering, we could help treble the agricultural output of the world, and make overpopulation (which is slowing down anyway because of industrialisation) less of a problem.
But of course we can't expect the irrational masses to understand such a simple fact...
I have to say I don't know all the agruments about it but at 1st glance genetic engineering is wrong IMO. Well, it's ok for who ever wants it, I wouldn't stop them but I don't want to eat that stuff and better crop management would help wouldn't it not only genetic engineering?
The companies who sell the geneticly engineered seeds just don't want anyone to be able to grow anything unless it's from buying new seeds every year. It's not because they are trying to save the world from starvation.
Everyone said it couldn't be done. So no one tried. Execpt one little old man who lived in a cave on the other side of the world. He hadn't heard it couldn't be done. So he tried it. He couldn't do it either.
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