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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 05/02/2006 :  16:29:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
pleco wrote:
quote:
Yeah, read any of "the Bill threads" to see where that goes...
Oh gawd, no kidding! I don't even know how many times I've had to repeatedly correct or inform him on something, and later in another conversation he just conveniently forgets everything everyone wrote to him from the previous conversation.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2006 :  08:59:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Boron10:
Here is the fundamental problem as I see it. Both sides walked away feeling the other couldn't “put up,” and present any evidence for his view.

So, while we are all congratulating Kil on his great commentary, John Schroeder's friends are all doing the same for him.


Of course, I have no doubt that you are right about that. That was one reason I brought up the creationists refusal to enter into structured written debates to defend their “science” several times and pointed out the weakness of email or live debates as the best method for hashing these things out. Email debates are a dime a dozen. We have several on this site alone. And while they have their place, a structured debate with strictly set ground rules is never really done, simply because guys like Shroeder refuse to be put in the position of actually having to defend their claims as a coherent thesis subject to critical analysis.

So while John can claim victory, even though and because I refused to enter into an email debate on the subject, what he can't do is point to any structured written debate as an example of the creationists willingness to really put it on the line because what he refused to do doesn't exist.

The fact that those who are under the creationists spell will not see that doesn't bother me. John knew. That is precisely why he went off on me in his last reply…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Evolouie
New Member

USA
1 Post

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  07:56:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Evolouie's Homepage  Send Evolouie an AOL message  Send Evolouie an ICQ Message  Send Evolouie a Yahoo! Message Send Evolouie a Private Message
Just my two thoughts...
The thing that always gets me about fundies is that want to save me from hell by converting me and saving my soul. And it is at this point I show them that no matter what the do they can not save my soul for as an atheist I have already committed the two unforgivable sins:
Matt. 12:32:
"And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."

Luke 12:10.

"And everyone who will speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him."
So no matter the outcome of my listening to them I am not going to be forgiven by God.
Not that this shuts them up but they know I am serious.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  08:40:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Kinda goes against the doctrine that anyone can be saved if they just believe...oh well, I'll join you in the damned souls boat. Salud!

Welcome to SFN, Evolouie!

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 08/08/2006 08:42:26
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2006 :  01:25:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
I would have, perhaps, spent a little more time asking him to explain "molecule to man evolution".

Because, ya know, that is the biggest straw-man he presents. He is attacking a field of scientific inquiry that he himself apparently invented, just for the purpose of attacking it.

There is no field of scientific inquiry called "molecule to man evolution".

Google up "molecule to man evolution" (use the quotes) and you only get 181 hits. I surveyed the first 30 or so, and every one was either some creationist ranting about evolution, or some one arguing with them.

It did turn up one interesting article though:
http://www.freeinquiry.com/challenge.html

A response by a geologist to a creationist student, it is written with a general audience in mind, and is very informative.

Perhaps Kil's pen-pal will come back and follow this link.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2006 :  12:12:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

I would have, perhaps, spent a little more time asking him to explain "molecule to man evolution".

Because, ya know, that is the biggest straw-man he presents. He is attacking a field of scientific inquiry that he himself apparently invented, just for the purpose of attacking it.

There is no field of scientific inquiry called "molecule to man evolution".

Google up "molecule to man evolution" (use the quotes) and you only get 181 hits. I surveyed the first 30 or so, and every one was either some creationist ranting about evolution, or some one arguing with them.

It did turn up one interesting article though:
http://www.freeinquiry.com/challenge.html

A response by a geologist to a creationist student, it is written with a general audience in mind, and is very informative.

Perhaps Kil's pen-pal will come back and follow this link.



Fits GK to a tee. Maybe he'll read it.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2550 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  18:46:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
In his last letter, John said to you: "You have a really nasty habit of trying to put words in people's mouths
that were not uttered. It is a serious flaw of evolutionists. In this
brief discussion, I have never had to defend my statement that
evolution is a hoax - really a fairy tale for grown-ups like you. You
are the one who has disagreed from the outset that evolution is a hoax,
the deception of the age. You are the one upon whom it is incumbent to
prove me wrong. Anyone can say to another you are wrong. I have
written a book that clearly sets forth why evolution is a Satanic lie.
"

Ever give this guy some links to the "Index to Creationist Claims" or the Talk Origins "29 Evidences for Macroevolution FAQ"? You could tell him to read some of that over before coming here to debate...if he has the guts to.

You could also ask him to prove that his god is the "real god" and not "allah" or something like that...he sure seems to have his mind made up.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2006 :  07:18:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
the ignored:
Ever give this guy some links to the "Index to Creationist Claims" or the Talk Origins "29 Evidences for Macroevolution FAQ"? You could tell him to read some of that over before coming here to debate...if he has the guts to.

This would have amounted to or led to a debate on evolution in our email exchange which would have detracted from what I was trying to do. Frankly, it would have played right into his hands. A formal debate was my offer to him and it still stands.
quote:

You could also ask him to prove that his god is the "real god" and not "allah" or something like that...he sure seems to have his mind made up.

Right, clearly he didn't see the need to justify what he believes. If he could simply wave away as “not believing in the same God that I do” Kenneth Miller, who happens to be a Catholic, any line of questioning along the lines that you suggest would have been similarly waved away.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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