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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  13:23:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Dan, what about my issue: pursuing this weakens our chances of defeating the most dangerous administration since the McCarthy era.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  15:49:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Dan, what about my issue: pursuing this weakens our chances of defeating the most dangerous administration since the McCarthy era.

Indeed, that's the heart of the matter. All this nonsense about Bush and company actively conspiring to slaughter thousands of Americans on 9/11 in effect just gives a pass to them for their tremendous lack of foresight in preventing the al-Qaeda attack, and for their bone-headed, politically motivated, and misplaced response in Iraq.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Cookie Parker
New Member

17 Posts

Posted - 08/27/2006 :  05:41:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cookie Parker a Private Message
While I enjoy a good conspiracy theory as much as the next skeptic, I am not all convinced Jones has sold me. I do however believe there is Bush involvement in the 9/11 attacks with no more than the historical relationships the Bushes have with the bin Ladens, the royal family (imposed not earned) of Saudi Arabia and the fact granddaddy Bush supported Hitler.

So while I'm not sure the entire government was involved with the 9/11 incident, I am sure the Bushes were.

Blaise Pascal:

To deny, to believe, and to doubt absolutely -- this is for man what running is for a horse.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  09:44:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
So by that logic I am involved with the plot as well as my Grandfather worked for the Goverment and the Military, and we all know the Gov helped Bin Laden, Saddam, Ho Chi Minh, Hitler and various other A-holes before they became our enemies.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  15:05:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message
Cookie Parker, an opinion of someone's character and family background doesn't constitute anything even vaguely resembling evidence relevant to their guilt in a specific crime. "So-and-so must be guilty of (fill in the blank) because he's a bad person" isn't even good enough to convict someone of a burglary; why should it be good enough to accuse a President of mass murder?

As for the "hijackers are still alive" claim, it's defensible only if you remain stuck in the confusion of the first two weeks after the attacks and willfully ignore all later information- which is precisely what the conspiracy-theory industry's hucksters are doing. By early 2002, the Saudi government, which had previously been of the "there must be some mistake" opinion, had acknowledged that it was satisfied with the identification of those hijackers who were Saudi citizens.

quote:
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) — Saudi Arabia acknowledged for the first time that 15 of the Sept. 11 suicide hijackers were Saudi citizens, but said Wednesday that the oil-rich kingdom bears no responsibility for their actions.


Previously, Saudi Arabia had said the citizenship of 15 of the 19 hijackers was in doubt despite U.S. insistence they were Saudis. But Interior Minister Prince Nayef told The Associated Press that Saudi leaders were shocked to learn 15 of the hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.

"The names that we got confirmed that," Nayef said in an interview. "Their families have been notified."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/02/06/saudi.htm

If you are interested in specifics about the hijackers about whom "still alive" claims have been made, I recommend a look at this page on Mike Williams' excellent 911 Myths site. It contains links to details about each of the six. Short version: the mixups that led to the "still alive" claims were due to a combination of the fact that not every individual in the world has a unique name all to him/herself, the use of incomplete names and the fact that Arabic names are properly written in the Arabic alphabet; when they appear in Roman-alphabet documents like US drivers licenses, credit cards, leases etc. they have been transliterated, and with multiple systems of transliteration in use there's plenty of opportunity for, say, a DMV clerk who isn't a linguist to create confusion.

quote:
Originally posted by Daniel
Some other points if interest are the September 10th 2001 Rumsfeld announcement that $2.3 Trillion of US tax payers money ‘cannot be accounted for'… http://youtube.com/watch?v=gUKJNxdmX6Y . Make of the timing what you will.


What I make of it is that if the gummint Rummy works for was cooking up a terrorist attack to occur on September 11th, having Rummy announce this on September 10th was pure idiocy. The right way to use the attacks to help cover this up would have been to wait until September 12th, when there wouldn't have been any room at all for it in the news media's coverage and our species' regrettable tendency to reason post hoc ergo propter hoc would have had less to work on.

I gotta agree with Beskeptigal that spending time and effort trying to pin 9/11 on the Bush administration irrespective of the facts, detracts badly from our job, as citizens, of evaluating what we actually know they've done and responding appropriately.

It also makes me really fucking sick to see so many people who would probably self-identify as "progressive" happily perpetuating the cultural tradition of the John Birch Soc

"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  23:58:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
It's pretty hard to explain Bush's appearance of "Oh shit, what the hell do I do?" when told of the attack while he was at the grade school photo op. There's no way to fake the total awareness of his own incompetence that I saw in that facial expression.

Reading Richard Clark's book, Against All Enemies, and all the other evidence I have seen, I've concluded incompetence, and special favors getting Saudi friends out of the country rather than having them questioned or for whatever reason certainly played a part. And Clark spoke of Bush and his group having the Iraq invasion plan before even being sworn in including the realization they couldn't sell the plan without something like 9/11. But beyond that, there is more evidence of incompetence than planning the attack or purposefully ignoring the threat so that an attack would occur. If it had been planned, there's no way Bush would have looked so incompetent in that school photo-op.
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chewbaca
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2006 :  23:29:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chewbaca a Private Message
Is it true that 911 holds the record for the most Air Force excercises in a single day? There is said to have been at least four major excercises occuring. That would explain why the controllers were asking that question so often.
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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2006 :  06:36:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
quote:
Is it true that 911 holds the record for the most Air Force excercises in a single day?
No.


If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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chewbaca
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  16:46:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chewbaca a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

quote:
Is it true that 911 holds the record for the most Air Force excercises in a single day?
No.



Yeah, I believe this was a claim from Webster Tarpley, and I can't find anything on the net to back this claim.
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