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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  19:04:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
BigPapaSmurf wrote:
quote:
Anyway I would really prefer having a Science Day as opposed to a Darwin Day, really its only going to add to the whole 'Darwinism as religion' idiocy. That and there are many, many more scientists who deserve as much recognition as Darwin does.

Just dont call it a Holiday, Holiday=holy day.


I don't see any confusion happening. Do people confuse Martin Luther King day with religion? People are more moved to celebrate when there is a figurehead who represents the cause. “Darwin Day”, or ”Newton Day” or ”Einstein Day” for that matter, sounds more inspiring to most people than ”Science Day”. In the case of MLK day, the cause is social equality. In the case of Darwin Day, the cause is science. And I imagine Darwin was chosen over other scientists because of the fervent attacks on the Theory of Evolution.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  21:21:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Science seeks the truth by way of compiling accurate information, but never states that it has found all of the truth. Science continues to search. Religions, all religions, claim to be the truth with no empirical basis. Absolute faith won't work in the laboratory, and doubt is unwelcome in the churchs.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  07:51:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
filthy wrote:
quote:
and doubt is unwelcome in the churchs
Well, except Unitarian churches.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  08:45:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

BigPapaSmurf wrote:
quote:
Anyway I would really prefer having a Science Day as opposed to a Darwin Day, really its only going to add to the whole 'Darwinism as religion' idiocy. That and there are many, many more scientists who deserve as much recognition as Darwin does.

Just dont call it a Holiday, Holiday=holy day.


I don't see any confusion happening. Do people confuse Martin Luther King day with religion? People are more moved to celebrate when there is a figurehead who represents the cause. “Darwin Day”, or ”Newton Day” or ”Einstein Day” for that matter, sounds more inspiring to most people than ”Science Day”. In the case of MLK day, the cause is social equality. In the case of Darwin Day, the cause is science. And I imagine Darwin was chosen over other scientists because of the fervent attacks on the Theory of Evolution.




I think your missing my point, You can be assured that anything called Darwin day will be at worst attacked and at best completely ignored by most creationist types, as Darwin equates to devil worship for many of them. Where a 'Science Day'/'Einstein day' may even be celebrated by churches, or god forbid could produce a science fair at some of them.

I equate it to making a new peace celebrating holiday called 'Jesus day' and then saying "Its really about peace so everyone should celebrate it, no matter what its called". I know I certainly wouldnt and neither would most non-christians.

I know Science Day sounds crappy, but it isnt any worse than Darwin Day. Just find a language it sounds cool in or change it to something like 'Double-Blind Empiricist Day!' or Dies Cogito! -Day of Thinking

Edit: Its still not as bad as "Brights" WTF were they thinking.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 02/15/2007 08:48:41
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  18:57:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

What a cop out! And a bad one at that! Curiosity is part of the human drive. Why do you suppose God gave humans intellect and reason and curiosity, and then put us in a place where over time we'd be able to at least figure out part of the puzzle of the natural world? Maybe part of the reason could be that curiosity leads to discovery, discovery to technology, and much technology is used to help all those people suffering in the world. There are plenty of examples of scientific research that started as pure research with no humanitarian ideas in mind but eventually lead to cures for thousands of people. People should do what they are good at and have a passion for. Only then will they be of much use to anyone else.


I never said we should not do science. Only spending time to reconcile science and the Bible is fruitless. People will never come to know God by reconciling the Bible with science, it is a waste of time.

Using your talents to help people is what Jesus wants us to do. Science has helped a great many people, I use my engineering knowledge to help people as well. I do not think science is evil. But reconciling science and the Bible helps nobody.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  03:22:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
But reconciling science and the Bible helps nobody.


Could it not possibly help those people who are anti-science because they fear the contradictions in the Bible? These people are the ones trying to remove science from our public schools, which in turn hurts all of us. If they could find a place where they have their religion and they can have science, we would all benefit. (Same goes for Islam, Mormon, etc.)

Of course, I think the chances of this happening are practically zero.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend

USA
346 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  05:52:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send leoofno a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:

I think that science and religion are compatible because both seek the truth.


Please outline the religious method of seeking truth please. I can definitly give you the scientific method.
[quote]


I'd really like to see an answer to this question. Exactly how does one go on a bible-based search for truth? Wouldn't you simply be searching through the bible itself?

What kind of truth does the bible address? Science seeks the kind of truth that can be verified. Since the bible gets much of the verifiable stuff wrong, aren't you only left with non-verifiable stuff, like whats the meaning of life? And doesn't that lead to a kind of a Truth-Of-The-Gaps problem, where as science expands what can be verified, the biblical sphere of truth shrinks?

I'm no deep thinker, so perhaps someone (Robb?) can clear this up for me.

"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2007 :  15:03:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
But reconciling science and the Bible helps nobody.


Could it not possibly help those people who are anti-science because they fear the contradictions in the Bible? These people are the ones trying to remove science from our public schools, which in turn hurts all of us. If they could find a place where they have their religion and they can have science, we would all benefit. (Same goes for Islam, Mormon, etc.)

Of course, I think the chances of this happening are practically zero.



Science does often contradict the bible. The only parts of the bible that science doesn't either show to be in error (ie man descended from one man's lineage) or show to be an accurate historical record (usually by finding evidence and collaborating accounts) is the parts science doesn't address due to the untestability and therefore unprovable parts. People who fear science debunking there crazy claims are either justified in those fears or simply want to establish belief in a crazy idea without evidence as acceptable, which if science is increasingly accepted as a method of valid truth seeking then blind acceptance becomes more and more ridiculous (as in able to be ridiculed). So really in a way, they feel threatened with ridicule more than science. After all, many people still accept crazy notions like alien visitation and abduction even without proof for there plausibility, but those people are also laughed at by most rational people. I think it is a fear that science will lump religion in with all of the other superstitions and fanatasies, and I also think that the fear is a rational one to have, since science does do that and does force crazy special pleading in order to maintain certain beliefs about those things in the bible (edicts, laws, stories, historical accounts, god's words, etc.).

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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