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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 06/13/2008 : 13:07:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Originally posted by Dave W.
Not to derail the thread, but...Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
I ike the ID sites. they have some valid criicisms... |
Assuming you meant "criticisms," name one.
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commonly, a lack of self correction in evolutionary biology is one criticism I found "somewhere" on a creationist site on the net.I don't know which one though. I have a few more. How do you like that criticism? Valid ? Just consider me a Creationist for the time being.
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Not valid at all.
The principe of punctuated equilibrium was a pretty big divergence from the way the theory of evolution was initially envisaged.
The theory evolution was also capable to adapt from the individual to the gene level of selection and was only made stronger in the last 20 years by the revolution in the field of molecular biology.
The core of the theory may seem like it only underwent little changes; but that is because the core of the theory was pretty damn good, right from the beginning.
Why would the theory self-correct when all the evidences gathered in the last decades are going in the same sense than it does? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 13:18:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Originally posted by Dave W.
Not to derail the thread, but...Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
I ike the ID sites. they have some valid criicisms... |
Assuming you meant "criticisms," name one.
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commonly, a lack of self correction in evolutionary biology is one criticism I found "somewhere" on a creationist site on the net.I don't know which one though. I have a few more. How do you like that criticism? Valid ? Just consider me a Creationist for the time being.
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Not valid at all.
The principe of punctuated equilibrium was a pretty big divergence from the way the theory of evolution was initially envisaged.
The theory evolution was also capable to adapt from the individual to the gene level of selection and was only made stronger in the last 20 years by the revolution in the field of molecular biology.
The core of the theory may seem like it only underwent little changes; but that is because the core of the theory was pretty damn good, right from the beginning.
Why would the theory self-correct when all the evidences gathered in the last decades are going in the same sense than it does?
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ah, it feels so good that we shouldn't look for error too much. You gave an example of a divergence. My comment was "commonly", a lack of self correction in Evolutionary Biology. sure, there is some .
there is some in church teaching too. and they consider their stuff just as comfy and correct as you do your stuff. We need to see self correction, if that is a claim that is made broadly. (and it is)
Or maybe you just flatly claim there is little self correction, not needed. that's fine too. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/13/2008 14:19:43 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 13:53:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
commonly, a lack of self correction in evolutionary biology is one criticism I found "somewhere" on a creationist site on the net.I don't know which one though. I have a few more. How do you like that criticism? Valid ? Just consider me a Creationist for the time being. |
It's as valid as the evidence supporting it. Is there any such evidence? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:06:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
commonly, a lack of self correction in evolutionary biology is one criticism I found "somewhere" on a creationist site on the net.I don't know which one though. I have a few more. How do you like that criticism? Valid ? Just consider me a Creationist for the time being. |
It's as valid as the evidence supporting it. Is there any such evidence?
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some. if it's true, let's say "if", is it a bad thing ? So we proudly proclaim self correcting is a merit in Evolutionary Biology ? Then it would be an embarrassing thing to have it disproven, as to our credibility.
If we make no claims, then , who knows ? maybe we just LIKE that Evolutionary Biology stuff regardless.
But I have some evidence. Wanna see ? |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/13/2008 14:12:05 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:09:29 [Permalink]
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Well... when evidences did come-up that contradicted it; the ToE was quickly improved by integrating them.
No such evidences, however, has shown up recently, so the ToE did not had any reason to be corrected.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:15:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
some. |
What is the evidence? Where can I examine it?
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Jery Coyne said it | It is also worth pondering why there has been general and unquestioned acceptance of Kettlewell's work. Perhaps such powerful stories discourage close scrutiny. Moreover, in evolutionary biology there is little payoff in repeating other people's experiments, and, unlike molecular biology, our field is not self-correcting because few studies depend on the accuracy of earlier ones. Finally, teachers such as myself often neglect original papers in favour of shorter textbook summaries, which bleach the blemishes from complicated experim |
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"Not black and white" by Jerry A. Coyne
[Fixed broken link... //Dr. Mabuse] |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 06/13/2008 14:30:55 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:18:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
May be you should just apologize to me and we can get on with it. That's the gentlemanly thing to do when you have been challenged and beaten, you know. |
Jesus Christ on a stick... This Muhammed dude is even more deluded than Jerome!
And just as full of himself. 
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 14:22:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
May be you should just apologize to me and we can get on with it. That's the gentlemanly thing to do when you have been challenged and beaten, you know. |
Jesus Christ on a stick... This Muhammed dude is even more deluded than Jerome!
And just as full of himself.
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nah. you haven't ever been beaten like this before. a group thumping by one lonely troll. I now leave to do your circle thing with your friends. You do need some relief. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/13/2008 14:24:52 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 15:27:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Jery Coyne said it... |
You must be kidding. The peppered moths are a perfect example of the self-correction of evolutionary biology because Jerry Coyne "basically says that it's time for the peppered moths to go back into the textbooks," after the original research was redone by Michael Majerus and the results published last November. Coyne made a criticism of Kettlewell's work, Majeus re-did the research and Coyne admitted that his criticism no longer stands. Coyne self-corrected. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 15:30:11 [Permalink]
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The Goldstein Variations.....
| I've not received so much as a nice Moo Goo Gai Pan from you Friends. |
I'll pop for a bagel with fried Hilib geyl (that's a kosher camelburger), if you will carefully write down exactly what your victory has been and particularly what it means for the study of Biology! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 15:32:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
tut tut ! count to ten !  you were shown to be wrong in the haircut thread , so watch out, I got your number. Dave is thinking about it now. You should do the same. Get together. Plan a swarming.
I'm going to be linking the haircut thread around. so you'll have some guests getting a good belly laugh soon.
I know ! take down the thread. Take it down right now ! Hide it. Bury it !
You might get famous !
Skeptic Friends get famous in the churchy circles ! wouldn't that be fun ?
As soon as the damn ID sites let me post . GRRRR.
May be you should just apologize to me and we can get on with it. That's the gentlemanly thing to do when you have been challenged and beaten, you know. Shake hands and congratulate. Have you no honour, only false pride? just do it and learn to be humble.
or stay a jihadist.
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Moe, I've observed better arguments than yours in the baboon exhibit at our local zoo.
It's one thing to claim victory after you've actually won something, but something else to just claim it on no grounds whatsoever. You've won jack shit, unless there's a trophy for gibberish. Is there?
I'd apologize if there was anything to apologize for. It would not be the first time, but, as I've implied earlier, you got a big pile of nothing but crap, so you can expect nothing but the same from me. So scamper away to whatever sites you feel you might belong in, and if you can't find any, I'll make you some reccommendations.
But do link that thread around, and this one as well. I'm sure they'll be enjoyed.
Um, did you consider that the ID sites won't let you post because they too, think you're no more than a minor nuisance with nothing to further the conversation.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 16:00:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
The Goldstein Variations.....
| I've not received so much as a nice Moo Goo Gai Pan from you Friends. |
I'll pop for a bagel with fried Hilib geyl (that's a kosher camelburger), if you will carefully write down exactly what your victory has been and particularly what it means for the study of Biology!
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Defeating a crew of these skeptics was great fun, though they lacked in intellect - something which would have been welcome, certainly.
When I think of other skeptics, I know some who have what it takes.
None of these are it. Compare a filthy with a Beleth.
oooh, that is bad; a slug compared to a lion.
so it's not that much of a victory to me , more a loss for them.
so my victory means nothing for biology, any good scientist would, or any reasonable person could, know this already. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 16:15:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Jery Coyne said it... |
You must be kidding. The peppered moths are a perfect example of the self-correction of evolutionary biology because Jerry Coyne "basically says that it's time for the peppered moths to go back into the textbooks," after the original research was redone by Michael Majerus and the results published last November. Coyne made a criticism of Kettlewell's work, Majeus re-did the research and Coyne admitted that his criticism no longer stands. Coyne self-corrected.
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I didn't put up the example of moths, though DAVE. I put up the criticism from Coyne, and I have not heard a retraction of that criticism. In fact, the information seems to suggest that the long time it took to really analyze the work shows that self correction was not happening..for how many years ?
Yes, the moths evolve, but that's a different story.I know Coyne now says it is an example of evolution, of course - as anything about any organism might be shown to be an example.
I don't see where he retracted the general criticism; only the words he spoke of the study and analysis. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/13/2008 16:23:06 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2008 : 16:27:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Originally posted by bngbuck
The Goldstein Variations.....
| I've not received so much as a nice Moo Goo Gai Pan from you Friends. |
I'll pop for a bagel with fried Hilib geyl (that's a kosher camelburger), if you will carefully write down exactly what your victory has been and particularly what it means for the study of Biology!
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Defeating a crew of these skeptics was great fun, though they lacked in intellect - something which would have been welcome, certainly.
When I think of other skeptics, I know some who have what it takes.
None of these are it. Compare a filthy with a Beleth.
oooh, that is bad; a slug compared to a lion.
so it's not that much of a victory to me , more a loss for them.
so my victory means nothing for biology, any good scientist would, or any reasonable person could, know this already.
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Again my point is made; you are here only to disrupt. But hey, we've seen it all before and you're not even very good at that. It is to laugh.
Who is Beleth?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Are they beginning to eat their own....
