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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 07/16/2008 : 14:45:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
There are many data points outside the trend line, for all I know all the low numbers on the cool temp side are from Canada, the rest from Scandanavia.
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I suppose that since swedish ice hockey player Mats Sundin just turned down a 2 year $20 million contract with the Canucks, it makes him an outlier on the above graphs.
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Could have been that brain-injury discussed earlier...  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 17:21:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Filthy.....
| Don't omit the South of France, it's great! |
After spending more than a year living in various regions of France and engaging in intensive research on the subject during the entire period; I came to the conclusion that there was no southern part of France and, in fact, no country in which the ladies wear no pants!
I will modestly add that my sample size was quite large, and unquestionably statistically significant.| Also, having more than passing experience in colder climes, I might remark that folks up that way have time to do a lot of reading, come the end of the deer season and before the lakes have iced up thick enough to drive out on them. |
Point well taken, but that is probably a badly skewed sample because most of the folks up North know how to read!
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So do most in the South. The difference might be the choice on literature. For 'xample, I'm going to Raleigh tomorrow to look for titles at a used book store. I'm looking for The Secret Life of Algernon Pendleton, The Last Tomb, The Travels of Jamie McPheters, A Canticle for Leibowitz, if I've spelled that right, anything by Mickey Spillane, anything by John D. McDonald, Rather a Vicious Gentleman, and For Murder, I Charge More. I already have Of All the Bloody Cheek and hope to someday complete the trilogy of this classic, British murder-for-hire. Been looking for decades. There are at least a dozen others on my mental list that I'll know if I see them, not all of them fiction. Us southerners just ain't got no eddyckashun, I reckon....
And if I don't find a single one, it'll be a good break-in run for the scoot.
Kil, I've got an open prescription at the VA that Limbaugh would commit matricide for. It's Oxycodone, and I won't take it. It really fucks me up and frankly, I'd rather have the pain. But all I have to do is get on the phone, and then show up, no cash involved. Be careful with that stuff. And really, take care of that disc lest you too, end up browsing for obscure titles in an out-of-the-way section of a Knockturn Alley book store.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 19:30:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Hawks, despite considerable evidence that many Canadians are genetically related to Hockey pucks, drop your Australian insular bias for a moment (after all, you folks are well below the equator) and consider the big picture: Does South/Hot mean Stupider, and North/Cool mean Brighter? Be prepared to defend either view, as many guns and knives will be drawn (those with knives presumably from more southern climes!)
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Although some americans believe that you can get from Australia to New Zealand by taking a bridge, I must firmly distance myself from all these sheep-shagging Aussies. Not only is NZ a separate country from Australia, it is also a nicer one. Not that I have any huge bias towards NZ anyway since I now live in Canada. I do miss my NZ beaches, though. And the nice, cheap meat. And the nice, cheap fish. And the lack of predators that await behind every bush. Heck, my wife was less than two meters from stepping on a rattle-snake the other day. And we had a bear (black) walk by just outside our windows some weeks back. What has this got to do with IQ, you might ask. I'll tell you. Avoiding large predators such as bears, cougars and marmots forces you to be smart. No reast for the weary up here. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 21:35:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Kil, I've got an open prescription at the VA that Limbaugh would commit matricide for. It's Oxycodone, and I won't take it. It really fucks me up and frankly, I'd rather have the pain. But all I have to do is get on the phone, and then show up, no cash involved. Be careful with that stuff. And really, take care of that disc lest you too, end up browsing for obscure titles in an out-of-the-way section of a Knockturn Alley book store.
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Thanks filthy. Vicodin wasn't working at night, so I'm taking Oxycodone now. It fucks me up too. I pretty much hate it, but without it, I can't sleep.
I don't have any idea how people take that stuff for fun. Nausea and constipation is what you get. Oh, and pain relief...
We got the MRI results today, so now I am being referred to whoever it is that does the injections in my back. Fucking HMO's. Anyhow, that will be the first thing they try. My doc says the pain will be gone fast, but I must lay low for several weeks or risk further injury. Sigh.
They pretty much like to stay away from surgery now if they can. The complications are a problem. Like, you know, your discs start to fall like dominoes.
Hopefully by this time next week I will be rid of these fucking pain killers. But it looks like I won't be working for a while.
I hope state disability pays me enough. I am kicking myself for not getting Aflac now... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 21:59:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Half-Mooner, what's your view on the oft-discussed differences between Northern and Southern Californians and their respective cultures? Are you folks unevenly distributed as to Fruits and Nuts, depending on your relative latitude and ambient temperature? |
I find the differences quite noticeable, at least between the Bay Area and the LA metropolitan area. (Less difference between the BA and San Diego, at least in my mind.)
Some decades back, I was attending a technical class at Woodland Hills, in the San Fernando Valley. During a lunch break, a number of us from the Bay Area went to a nearby mall. In a glassed, cylindrical column in the central area, were displayed some pretty porcelain figurines. One such was an attractive and apparently unique leaping dolphin, a wash of green, celadon-like color dripped over it. Two women were looking at it.
The first woman said, "Oh, that's beautiful, but I don't know if I can afford it right now."
The other simply said, "Mine's better."
My impression is that Lalaland folks tend to be flashier than other Californians, perhaps more given to conspicuous consumption. You can see this in the vehicles, when you drive through. I think this is an affectation coming from the Hollywood cultural milieu.
I'm sure they have things to say about people from the San Francisco and San Diego areas, too, though.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2008 : 22:19:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
My impression is that Lalaland folks tend to be flashier than other Californians, perhaps more given to conspicuous consumption. You can see this in the vehicles, when you drive through. I think this is an affectation coming from the Hollywood cultural milieu.
I'm sure they have things to say about people from the San Francisco and San Diego areas, too, though.
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Artist: Frank Zappa
Title: Tuna Fish Promenade
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This town
This town
Is a Sealed Tuna Sandwich
Sealed Tuna Sandwich
With the wrapper glued
It's by baloney on the rack
It goes for 40 cents a whack
It's just a place for us to play
To help us pay
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
All the people in the Sandwich Town
Think the place is great
What if part of it's crumbling down?
Most of them prob'ly won't be 'round . . .
They'll either be dead
Or moved to San Francisco
(Where everybody thinks they're Heavy Business . . .
But it's just a Tuna Sandwich from another catering service . . .) |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 01:48:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by HalfMooner
My impression is that Lalaland folks tend to be flashier than other Californians, perhaps more given to conspicuous consumption. You can see this in the vehicles, when you drive through. I think this is an affectation coming from the Hollywood cultural milieu.
I'm sure they have things to say about people from the San Francisco and San Diego areas, too, though.
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Artist: Frank Zappa
Title: Tuna Fish Promenade
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This town
This town
Is a Sealed Tuna Sandwich
Sealed Tuna Sandwich
With the wrapper glued
It's by baloney on the rack
It goes for 40 cents a whack
It's just a place for us to play
To help us pay
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
The cost of the tickets back to L.A.
All the people in the Sandwich Town
Think the place is great
What if part of it's crumbling down?
Most of them prob'ly won't be 'round . . .
They'll either be dead
Or moved to San Francisco
(Where everybody thinks they're Heavy Business . . .
But it's just a Tuna Sandwich from another catering service . . .)
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Zappa's "Sandwich Town" must be San Diego, eh? I recall when the whole area around the wharfs there reeked of the tuna canneries. That's why I still don't eat tuna.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 03:47:55 [Permalink]
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I don't have any idea how people take that stuff for fun. Nausea and constipation is what you get. Oh, and pain relief...
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Indeed. Here's a trick: eat a couple of handfuls of cashews every day. They'll help with the constipation. Peanuts will as well, but cashews are tastier. Also a modest slug of mineral oil before each meal helps. You take it before so's to get rid of the slimy-gullet feeling soonest. Homopathy that actually works, baby!
As for the stomach twists, gotta-puke-&-can't, and the bad head; I can't help you there. I too, have wondered how anyone could possibly beome addicted to such unpleasantness. No wonder Limbaugh is such a complete ass!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 08:30:30 [Permalink]
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Okay Bill. This may or may not demonstrate that I am more clearheaded today than I was yesterday...
from the article:
Here's the possible causation:
If it is causation, as seems likely, the mechanism could be anything. Pathogen load is surely part of it, hence the fields of study called "tropical disease" and "tropical medicine." Also, you might sweat too much in hotter environments, bringing you closer to dehydration. As mild as these effects may seem, when accumulated over the course of development, they could result in your body spending more resources on bodily maintenance than on luxury items like IQ and toil. Heat could also just make you more fatigued -- that wouldn't affect IQ, but it would affect your work ethic, making you less likely to complete college and more likely to pursue quick fixes like crime to get what you want. |
The problem with graphs like the one shown is that you can pick out and confirm any ol' bias because we can make of it what we want to. On its own, it doesn't really say anything. Correlations can by hypothesized but they are often shots in the dark. For example, I could make the case, based on my liberal bias, that poorer people are pushed to places that they can afford. And places with hot or lousy climates tend to have lower real-estate values and subsequently a population that is easier to exploit, due to worker income expectations by industry and those who work for them. Along with that may come worse schools, higher crime rates and everything else that is associated with poorer areas in cities, but on a much larger scale, as in whole states. The difference may be subtler than what you expect to see in a city, but they are there.
So climate isn't making for lower IQ scores. Not directly anyway. Real estate values are, which is often associated with climate. Better schools and higher wages in those areas would result in higher IQ scores, no matter what the climate is.
Looking at the graphs, I could easily make the above correlation and it might even be the correct one. To make sense of raw data we must take into account any number of factors, some of which we may not have even thought of yet. The one that I doubt is that climate change alone will negatively impact IQ scores.
If that were true, I could make this oft stated satirical correlation which I will paraphrase: The climate is warming because there are less sea faring pirates now than there used to be…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 12:33:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Kil, I've got an open prescription at the VA that Limbaugh would commit matricide for. It's Oxycodone, and I won't take it. It really fucks me up and frankly, I'd rather have the pain. |
How much did you take? Before the surgery, I took 50mg before going to bed in hopes of getting through the night, but it didn't do all that much for me. I still woke up every 1½ hour from the pain.
Edited to add: Yeah, I also took 300mg of tramadol (12-hour release pills) on the side before going to bed. And 1000mg paracetamol.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/17/2008 12:39:04 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2008 : 14:17:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by filthy
Kil, I've got an open prescription at the VA that Limbaugh would commit matricide for. It's Oxycodone, and I won't take it. It really fucks me up and frankly, I'd rather have the pain. |
How much did you take? Before the surgery, I took 50mg before going to bed in hopes of getting through the night, but it didn't do all that much for me. I still woke up every 1½ hour from the pain.
Edited to add: Yeah, I also took 300mg of tramadol (12-hour release pills) on the side before going to bed. And 1000mg paracetamol.
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Not very much! They shoveled it into me in hospital, and I felt sick most of the time. The plus side was that I lost a lot of weight because eating wasn't much of an option. I all but quit taking it after getting out. I don't remember, if I ever knew, the mg values of the pills. I never took more than 2 at any one time.
Also, 2nd back surgery, I got an impacted bowel, which is even less fun than you might imagine. Someone once said that defecation is a lot more productive than praying. You can believe that thing!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 13:36:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Not that I have any huge bias towards NZ anyway since I now live in Canada. |
Your profile says otherwise, so you really can't blame bngbuck for that... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 13:42:19 [Permalink]
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My Oxycodon-pills came in 10mg doses, which meant I had to swallow a handfull of pills before going to bed...
I so glad I'm over it. Quitting was a bitch though.
When I was watching on TV, some junkie with withdrawal symptoms, shaking from the shivers and sweating at the same time, I used to think "what a sissie...".
I don't think that anymore, say-no-more... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 13:52:10 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
| So climate isn't making for lower IQ scores. Not directly anyway. Real estate values are, which is often associated with climate. Better schools and higher wages in those areas would result in higher IQ scores, no matter what the climate is. |
It may be that better schools and higher wages are not available in those areas because of the climate! Real estate values are most often associated with the general health of the economy of the geography in question. For many years, the Deep South didn't enjoy the industrial growth and population accrual that other parts of the country did, remaining basically rural and agrucultural.
A new perception of heat as preferable to a cold climate (the Florida syndrome), low taxes, and a cheap work force all combined to change this situation significantly in the late 20th century. Today, although the industrial South cannot compare with the GDP of the industrial North East and Midwest, nor with that of the West Coast, the imbalance is much less than it was several decades ago.
But it still appears that the general intelligence and education level of at least the basic eight Deep South states is, at least anecdotally, inferior to other parts of the country. I know of no studies that either confirm or deny this guess, but I have had a great deal of personal experience in observation of this situation.
I have lived for at least a year or more in Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Virginia, North Carolina, Florida and Texas. In contrast, I have also spent a year or more in residence in Colorado, California, Arizona, and Idaho; eleven months in Illinois and a five-month summer in New York City.
Summing my impressions of living in strikingly different regions of the United States, I have a very strong impression that, taken as a whole, the folks in the Deep South are - in general - not as smart, not as well-read, inquisitive, well-spoken, well-educated, or intellectually inclined as are folks in Eastern, Northern, Western and even Mid-Western areas of the United States!
As I said earlier, this is a purely anecdotal observation. An opinion based not on demonstratable data but rather a good deal of day-to-day immersion in the regions that I have lived in and compared.
I think that it is interesting that a good deal of the fundamental Christian idiocy we see today, the Young Earthers, the Creationists, Intelligent Design advocacy, Liberty University, the late Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and many other televangelists - all are located in or have roots in the South. Big time reactionary, militant, ultra-fundamental Christian political organizations are significantly Southern-based (excepting Focus on the Family, but Dobson is a fundamentalist from Louisiana, and Colorado Springs is in southern Colorado).
Churches of all conceivable denominations and degrees of insanity are almost laughably evident on virtually every street corner in many southern cities!
Dave has previously argued on these pages that Evangelical Christian conviction does not necessarily inversely correlate with intelligence, but my gut tells me something is going on when, de facto most of the Christian Crazies in the US are located in the South!
Obviously, large-scale psychological and sociological studies are needed to define the degree of truth or falsehood in these speculations. But based solely on my aforementioned gut feeling (a gut frequently filled with fried catfish, grits and red-eye gravy, black-eyed peas with ham hocks, oxtail soup, red beans and rice, sweet potato pie, chitlins, cracklins, and sweet tea); I would wager a comfortable sum that if such a study is ever done, the folks in the South (taken as a whole) would come up a corn pone short on filling a full intellectual combo plate!
Razib says:
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2008 : 13:54:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
My Oxycodon-pills came in 10mg doses, which meant I had to swallow a handfull of pills before going to bed...
I so glad I'm over it. Quitting was a bitch though.
When I was watching on TV, some junkie with withdrawal symptoms, shaking from the shivers and sweating at the same time, I used to think "what a sissie...".
I don't think that anymore, say-no-more...
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In the '70s I got almost that far with percodan, before I realized that I was eating them without needing them. At the hospital, we vets called them "VA candy." Never again....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Why Canadians are More Intelligent than Americans
