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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2008 : 22:42:03
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Well, it's been about two days now, and my comment on the Atheism is Dead (formerly the Atheism Sucks) blog still has not appeared.
Hope no one minds if I store it here in the meantime? I want more than one copy available in case my computer goes on me
I was replying to some off the cuff bullshit that a poster named JaaJoe said (his comments are italicized):
Apparently to some atheists, doing anything bad at all is called "acting religious", and is justly the fault of some religion or another, but certainly not atheism.
The "acting religious" statement is probably a reference to the zeal that ideologues can get: the absolute idea that they are not only right, but that anyone who disagrees with them is "evil" or must be wiped out.
One could note that atheism has no "holy book" that has any commands like "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" etc.
This tells the story of a Jew who was forced to dig his own grave prior to being shot by a German soldier. Prior to being shot, the old Jewish man advised the German that #8220;God is watching what you are doing.#8221; The Jewish gentleman pointed what i think is the real problem with atheism. "If you have the time please check the book out |
For the record, atheism had precious little to do with anti-semitism. I posted as much here.
Problem is, that blog's owner doesn't allow URLs on his site, so some of what I posted you'll have to get to "manually".
The historical evidence is clear though. It was not atheism that was responsible for the holocaust as Berlinski and "JaaJoe" say. |
For the record, in the link to JaaJoe's review, this is what he says:
| It is rather unusual for a book review to begin, as this one has, with seven paragraphs that discuss the dedication of the book, but the dedication of The Devil's Delusion provides an insight into the real reason that the book is written. Berlinski is a self-professed secular Jew. He is not a diabolical right-wing Christian. He does not recall any of the Hebrew that he was taught, so he can't be accused of being a member of the Hasidim. He is just a guy who knows that atheism, in it's most nightmarish form, is what caused the Holocaust and he has written a book that is a response to the many books that have been written by militant atheists such as Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett. |
JaaJoe is the name of the poster on Atheism is Dead, but the guy who wrote the review of Dembski's book goes by the name "Cisco".
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 05:18:57 [Permalink]
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I made the following comment in that thread:It is not enough that someone was killed and the killer was an atheist to make atheism responsible. And no atheist would blame a killing on Christianity if it weren't for the killer(s) saying, "I did this for God!"
Yes, on the face of things, Stalin was an atheist. But where is the evidence that he killed millions in the name of atheism?
Stalin was also opposed to Darwinism. By the logic that appears in this post and its comments, we should also attribute those millions of murders to anti-Darwinistic fervor. Or how about Stalin's moustache? Tens of millions killed by moustachioed men. Stalin was also a white man, so shall we blame white men for those murders as well?
How many of the people here will cop to such atrocities through the same illogic that leads to "atheism is responsible for millions of deaths?" Nobody should.
And as soon as someone comes up with evidence that Stalin killed anyone "in the name of atheism," I'm sure that atheists will accept the responsibility as much as Christians accept responsibility for those who claim to kill for Jesus, and Muslims accept responsibility for those who claim to kill in Allah's name.
Because - fair play - there are thousands of murders committed by theists every year which atheists do not try to pin on theism. A self-professed Christian who shoots a shopkeeper during a bungled robbery did not kill due to his religion. Christianity would be blameless for that. Even the woman who drowned her kids because God told her to was simply insane (Christianity again blameless). However, Arthur Shelton killed for God, was mentally competent and his family shared his beliefs. |
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2008 : 06:50:48 [Permalink]
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Excellent, Dave, excellent. You do these better than anyone, but will hard logic & sound reason have an effect? Hard to say -- too often it does not.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 07/30/2008 : 10:01:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Excellent, Dave, excellent. You do these better than anyone, but will hard logic & sound reason have an effect? Hard to say -- too often it does not.
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I think it's human nature that people are more likely to cherry pick conformation for their bias than to make any attempt to examine their own belief when it is called into question. Without some method for minimizing our bias, we would be as lost as those we accuse of twisting logic to maintain their prejudices. The sad fact is that an alarming number of people have never been taught how to think.
And that is what we are up against... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 12:57:16 [Permalink]
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| There's the fact that neither of our remarks seem to have made it yet also. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 21:18:12 [Permalink]
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Well, both of our comments are there, now. Heh. One person mentions how few posts are made there. Compare that with Raytractors blog
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2008 : 03:09:15 [Permalink]
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| This tells the story of a Jew who was forced to dig his own grave prior to being shot by a German soldier. Prior to being shot, the old Jewish man advised the German that #8220;God is watching what you are doing.#8221; The Jewish gentleman pointed what i think is the real problem with atheism. "If you have the time please check the book out |
Of course, what this people always (how so conveniently) forget to mention is that the nazis probably answered: 'sure he does... and he is giving me the thumbs up!'.
Nazism was produced in a majoritarly Christian countries mostly by conservative Christian and voted for by a mostly Christian population and most of the soldiers and agents of the Shoa were christians.
Hitler himself was raised in a very conservative catholic environment and considered becoming a priest for a while. In both Mein kampf and his public discoursed he is mentioning God at several times. The nazi government also passed laws to protect Germany 'Christian cultures'.
On a more subtil way, the myth of the fated man brought in to bring salvation to his people (which is the way Hitler was viewed by his party) has obvious Christian and messianics under-tones.
Anti-semitism too, has been influenced by hundred of centuries of Christian traditions...
Religion has never seemed enough to prevent people from comitting atrocities.
In fact, the Bible itself explains in multiple places that genocide is sometime God's will.
In fact; there is even a passage were God gets angry at his people because they spared the little male children. Not to worry, they soon kill them too (sparing only the underage girls that made good raping material) and God was happy again...
If there is such acceptable example of genocides in the holliest of book, the problem is just to convince oneself that the next one too is looked on favorably by the big guy...
On an other hand; this is a pretty grim view of man that transpire through that arguement. A mean murdering beast without moral of its own and that is only prevented from comitting atrocity because it is afraid of being punished for it...
[Edited to fix quoting - Dave W.] |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2008 : 18:57:03 [Permalink]
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| My second comment over there has not yet been approved. I wish I had thought to save it. AGS is trying to shift the burden of proof, and Mr. Patel is mistaken about the real point. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Atheism and the Holocaust, more bullshit...
