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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  09:05:57  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
YO, whoa and woe!

News crew crashes Denver's DNC 'concentration camp'


Cattle prods and Tazers at the ready.

Undoublethinkingly Yurz, OY


Edit: to add code for link-- Cune

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde

Edited by - Cuneiformist on 08/21/2008 04:28:32

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  11:20:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the video:

"exchange the word bolt for gun, and thats how they treat cattle, its a meat processing plant."

Ummm...It's a temporary detention facility.

The outrage is, well, dumb. Would they rather disruptive groups that get arrrested be chained to a park bench or something?


The secrecy is the only real problem I see here. Nothing wrong with building some extra space for detainees. You know there will be several of the anti-corporate anti-government groups there protesting, and they will break laws for attention. They will do the same at the republican convention as well.

As long as they run it like a normal jail, I fail to see a problem.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  11:53:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orwell.....

No where in the Raw Story do I read any connection with politics. What is going on here? Strictly standard issue police overkill, or could there be a political motivation hidden in these Gestapo-like machinations?

At the '04 Republican convention in NY, one can easily understand thug right-wing cops beating up on lefty demonstrators. But Denver cops (as Republican as any cops anywhere) gunning for right wing demonstrators is a tad odd!

Denver's mayor, John Hickenlooper, is a famous Democratic liberal, but I would hate to think that he issued the marching orders to the Denver police.

Anybody have any ideas on what the rest of the Raw Story is here?
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  12:59:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, lets see... the dems are bringing in 75000 people for Obama's night at the stadium.

There will be a lot of people all juiced up on high emotions, there will be protestors, there will be some protest groups who intend to break the law.

I'm thinking that their temporary facility is, at this point, just prudent thinking.

All they need is to get a couple of judges to put in some overtime, set up a little mini-court, and process people through. Here's your fine, pay the clerk, next time leave the rocks on the ground. NEXT!


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  15:04:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm of two minds on this. That foul, little asswipe, Bush started the Free Speach Zone bullshit wherein he was spared the sight of people who despised didn't love him. I find that utterly repugnent. But then again, a protest crowd as large as this one promises to be could contain a lot of whackos and it only takes one to spike the punch at the prom, as it were.

I don't like it at all and would refuse attend the convention for that reason (were I invited and able to attend -- fat chance!). But I can understand the reasoning.

But y'know, this thing just might be the dead-cert guarantee that ugly shit will go down.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  18:57:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rhetorical questions:

If James Dobson's rightwing wackos show up outside the convention stadium to blast air horns during Obama's speech, will they get arrested and detained?

On the other hand, if a quiet demonstrator who isn't disturbing the peace, simply stands on a corner holding a sign reminding passersby about Tibet or Darfur, will he be ignored by the Denver police?

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  20:03:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Orwell.....

At the '04 Republican convention in NY, one can easily understand thug right-wing cops beating up on lefty demonstrators. But Denver cops (as Republican as any cops anywhere) gunning for right wing demonstrators is a tad odd!



OY Sez Back: I think you're missing the point in your last sentence of the above graph. I think the cops, wherever they are, are going to be gunning for any blatant protesting. It's likely most right wing demonstators at the Denver convention will be ones masquerading as lefties.

The reveling and carrying-on of the real lefties will be what they'll seize on to make the Democrats look bad, if all the Denver cops are Repuglican'ts, as you say.

What I linked from Raw Story was all there was. Maybe you'd like to surf further.

OY

Fixed quoting - Ricky

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
Edited by - Ricky on 08/16/2008 21:15:39
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular

USA
529 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  20:20:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Orwellingly Yurz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Orwell.....

No where in the Raw Story do I read any connection with politics.


OY Sez Back Some More:

Ah, heck. I just thought that since the cages being readied
were going to be for some of the people who'll be attending
the Democratic National Convention would allow this item to
slip into the Political niche.

Is there a Police State category here at Skeptics? And when did Police State tactics not have to do with politics?

Better get out your Orwell Reader or maybe Jack London's "The Iron Heel."

Oink!

Fixed quoting - Ricky

"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith

If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan

The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me

"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty

"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde

"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus

"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus

"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde
Edited by - Ricky on 08/16/2008 21:16:52
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  21:07:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OY!.....

I did not intend to imply that your post should not have been in politics, only that it was strange that there was little or no political insinuation in the article. I feel that the police have a valid responsibility to maintain the peace, but the establishment of a prison for what they obviously see as unruly demonstrators smacks to me of anticipatory over-response.

Chippewa brings up a very valid point, will there be political considerations in deciding who is to be arrested?
Is there a Police State category here at Skeptics?
You answer your first question accurately with your second question:
And when did Police State tactics not have to do with politics?
My point exactly. But what politics specifically here, Red or Blue?
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2008 :  21:17:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

The secrecy is the only real problem I see here.


From the link:

"This facility will not be used for long-term detention," stated a Denver police department letter to area residents.


Don't know when it was sent though...

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  02:35:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck
But Denver cops (as Republican as any cops anywhere) gunning for right wing demonstrators is a tad odd!

Sounds like a win-win situation from where I'm sitting.

I'd like to see more Americans in Guantanamo detention-like places, so they get a feel for what's going on Cuba. Maybe they'll realize the travesty of justice going on and pressure the politicians to make amends.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  09:15:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ricky, I'm referring to the point where the police captain refused to allow the film crew further access, called the place a "secured area", and claimed that knowledge of the place could compromise it. As if protestors are going to be broken out by their insurgent brothers! Or the place itself is going to come under attack and the layout needs to be secret...


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  09:37:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dr. Mabuse.....

Sounds like a win-win situation from where I'm sitting.
It's so damn cold where you're sitting up there in Iceland, you're suffering from chilblains! I certainly don't wish any decent Scandinavian interrment in a hell-hole like Guantanamo. I appreciate your fair, decent, even-handed judgement of we Americans, however, particularly the 100+ million of us that loath and despise the Cheney/Bush jackboots even more than you execrate the American people.

The time that I spent in Sweden, I found the Swedes to be largely fair, reasonable, sensible, kindly, generous people. I loved the country and it's people.

What was your view of America and Americans when you visited us?

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  10:27:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mab:
I'd like to see more Americans in Guantanamo detention-like places, so they get a feel for what's going on Cuba. Maybe they'll realize the travesty of justice going on and pressure the politicians to make amends.

Mab. Have you looked at Bush's approval rating lately? Do you really believe that most or even a majority of Americans approve of Bush's disregard for human rights and the suspension of habeas corpus? Even our conservative supreme court ruled ruled against Bush on that issue.

I understand your frustrations, but you have to understand that we are frustrated too. That is what the numbers show. To tell you the truth, and while I won't deny that things have not been exactly peachy over here, you continue to paint Americans with such a broad brush that you have turned us into caricatures of what you think we are. It's easier to do that, I suppose, if you wish to make a point, but it's not necessarily accurate.

Hey, is it true that Swedes all have blond hair and blue eyes and all of the woman are foxes? Is it true that you spend half the year fucking your brains out because it's dark up there for many months and there is nothing else to do? Is it?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  12:25:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I understand your frustrations, but you have to understand that we are frustrated too. That is what the numbers show. To tell you the truth, and while I won't deny that things have been exactly peachy over here, you continue to paint Americans with such a broad brush that you have turned us into caricatures of what you think we are. It's easier to do that, I suppose, if you wish to make a point, but it's not necessarily accurate.


I had a World Regions professor who traveled all around the world. The kind of guy who would spend a week in Jordan on a whim. He said that the one major difference between America and, well, the rest of the world, is that American's do not possess the ability to separate the people from the policy makers. He said that while most of the world hates American's president and policies, they absolutely love American people. Except the French.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 08/17/2008 12:25:41
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2008 :  12:32:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ricky.....

is that American's have the inability to separate the people from the policy makers.
Sounds to me that bigoted Europeans like Mabuse are the ones that can't separate the American people from their (currently) idiotic leaders!

Bush currently only has about a 30% approval rating in the US, in poll after poll!
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