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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  11:22:02  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did McCain & his campaign put any thought into this at all?
Choice stuns state politicians

By SEAN COCKERHAM and WESLEY LOY

Published: August 29th, 2008 12:50 PM
Last Modified: August 29th, 2008 02:31 AM

John McCain's choice of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate stunned and divided Alaska political leaders on Friday. Supporters said she was a shrewd choice, but others argued Palin has no business being a heartbeat away from the presidency.

"I think it's very easy to underestimate Sarah Palin," said John Binkley, a former state legislator who lost to Palin in the 2006 Republican primary for governor.

Serving as small-town mayor of Wasilla was Palin's main experience before running for governor. Binkley said he underestimated her guts and campaign skill.

"I think there will probably a tendency for the Democrats to do the same thing," Binkley said. "They will assume that her lack of experience on the national stage will put her at a disadvantage, and I'm not certain that will matter."

The reaction wasn't so rosy elsewhere. State Senate President Lyda Green said she thought it was a joke when someone called her at 6 a.m. to give her the news.
<snip>
The early morning news of McCain's pick sent jaws dropping throughout Alaska, with friends waking up friends with "Oh my God, have you heard?" phone calls.

State House Speaker John Harris, a Republican from Valdez, was astonished at the news. He didn't want to get into the issue of her qualifications.

"She's old enough," Harris said. "She's a U.S. citizen."

Former House Speaker Gail Phillips, a Republican political leader who has clashed with Palin in the past, was shocked when she heard the news Friday morning with her husband, Walt.

"I said to Walt, 'This can't be happening, because his advance team didn't come to Alaska to check her out," Phillips said.
Emphasis mine

I think that this choice reflects very poorly on McCain's judgement. It looks to me that Rove, or somebody, possibly McCain himself decided that, as the Democrats were making big-time history by running a young, black man, then they'd make some history too, by getting a young woman in the campaign, preferably a pretty, Christian one that would get Dobson the & the rest of Religious Right drooling with unrequited & barely-disguised lust.
Earlier this year Dr. Jim Dobson, President of Focus on the Family made news when he announced on “The Dennis Prager Show” that he “cannot and will not vote for Senator John McCain.” Today, on The Dennis Prager Show, the conservative leader changed course and announced his enthusiastic support on the heels of the announcement by Senator McCain of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate.


This choice is, more & more, coming out as pure & unadulterated politics, qualifications be damned, the United States of America be damned.

"Och Johnny, we scarcly knew ye!"




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  12:23:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's remarkable that after only a couple of days, so much shit is coming out over this candidate. From Hullabaloo:

"The New Nixon

by dday

There's quite a lot to say about Sarah Palin. There's actually quite more to say about Barack Obama's magnificent speech, but John McCain kicked the soccer ball and the media herd is chasing it. So we'll go with Palin for now and come back to Obama's speech on the weekend.

What's striking to me is what has happened in Alaska since Palin was swept into office as a reformer. In 2006, sitting governor Frank Murkowski finished third out of four in the primary due to corruption scandals. A good chunk of the Republicans in the state legislature are either under indictment or under suspicion. Ted Stevens will go to court in September. Palin offered a new direction from that culture of corruption.

And then she came into office and did the same thing as every other Republican in Alaska. The most prominent scandal, for which she is currently under an ethics review, concerns her trying to get her sister's ex-husband fired as a state trooper."


<snip>

"There's actually tape of a Palin aide pressuring the Public Safety Department to fire Wooten. And when the Public Safety Commissioner wouldn't, she fired him and replaced him with someone who would. Someone who had a history of sexual harrassment and is now the PUBLIC SAFETY commissioner.

That's shades of Archibald Cox and Elliot Richardson and William Ruckleshaus. I understand that the state trooper and her sister had a messy divorce, and he's been alleged to have done all sorts of terrible things to the sister and the kids, but firing people who refuse to carry out your wishes - well, that's good for Woodward and Bernstein's career, but not for the country.

And there's more."


I don't think I can stand any more. Could even Limbaugh defend this travesty?

And where the hell is our courageous, national media, the esteemed Fourth Estate on all this? I don't know either, but they really need to get their collective thumbs out of their sagging, coffee & donut-sucking ass' and start doing what they are over-paid to do. This is the perfect time to begin salvaging a sunken reputation, but I doubt if they'll even see it, much less grasp the opportunity.






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  12:28:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd thought it likely that McCain would name a female as his running mate, if only to try to gather some of the more bitter, gender-only-issue Hillary supporters. I thought Kay Bailey Hutchinson, perhaps. Certainly not an unknown from the back of beyond.

But the choice of Sarah Palin was a stunner. That woman would never be elected dogcatcher in most of the Lower 48. Considering her being presented by a major political party as a candidate to be within a sick old man's heartbeat of the Presidency makes me shudder.

McCain has overshadowed next week's whole NeoCon extravaganza in Minneapolis by this horrendous, bone-headed choice.

CNN is ruuning an unscientific poll on their web site, asking "Who is the stronger VP choice?"

Results to this moment:

Biden 68%
Palin 32%

Excellent.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/30/2008 12:35:22
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  13:23:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I too, was thinking maybe Hutchinson. I guess McCain felt he had to do something spectacular even if it was wrong, and sure enough, it was.

Now, I wonder; sooner or later the many flaws of Palin will come out to the general public, the Dems'll see to that (one hopes), so will McCain pull a McGovern and dump her as he did Eagleton, or will he be stupid enough to "stay the course." I think he'll stick with her if only because she guarantees him Dobson, et al. At least at this point -- that too, could change. Gonna be an interesting couple months....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  13:25:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This pick was only to solidify the weakening base. Obviously, with Dobson now flip-floping to support McCain, it has worked. At least a little.

The other thing it does is cut Biden's massive edge in a VP debate. He can destroy Rudy McRomney in a VP debate, but he can't do the same to a woman... He will not leave the debate with a favorable impression is he is percieved as having been mean or agressive towards her (as the primaries showed with Hillary, as well as Hillary's senate campaign debates).

Other than that.... lets see: She is anti-science, anti-environment, anti-choice, and a bug-fuck crazy creationist.

Awesome.

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  13:27:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And yes.... the media needs to get off their collective asses on this one. They need to report.

Useless tabloid motherfuckers....


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  14:02:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AiG has firmly endorsed her with some of the most convoluted blather I've seen in a long time. They had to do it in blather to protect their tax status. I'm sure we'll see more of it soon.

"On Friday at Dayton, Ohio's Nutter Center—which AiG once rented for a major origins debate/conference—Senator John McCain introduced Governor Sarah Palin as his out-of-the-blue choice for vice presidential running mate for the Republican Party ticket in November's presidential election. Within hours of the announcement, political commentators—from quick-posting bloggers to TV analysts like Eleanor Clift of the venerable PBS-TV program The McLaughlin Group—were expressing scorn about the Alaskan governor as a creationist.

Before we look at Gov. Palin's beliefs on creation/evolution (she has certainly shown a willingness to express her doubts about the scientific validity of evolution), we should add that caution needs to be exercised in this area before confidently declaring her to be a biblical young-earth creationist. There are all kinds of origins views that span a spectrum that is bookended by a literal Genesis creation on one end and naturalistic evolution on the other. Most politicians, when asked about their origins beliefs, try to answer somewhere between the two bookends, settling into a comfortable place in between so as not to alienate those who believe in a Creator (the overwhelming majority of Americans) while protecting themselves from allegations that they reject mainstream science.1 We recall that in 2007, Republican candidate for president Gov. Mike Huckabee put up his hand during a debate to show that he did not believe in evolution. Some creationists quickly rejoiced, concluding that Mr. Huckabee, a former Baptist pastor, must believe in a literal, straightforward reading of Genesis. Later, however, he made it clear that he did not necessarily want to be identified with young-earth creationism, saying that he was not sure about a six-day creation.2"


Yadda, yadda, yadda ad infinitum.

The punchline can be found in footnote #6, where the Statement of Faith of Palin's church is linked:

"Statement of Faith



1. We believe in the Bible as the only inspired inerrant Word of God authoritative for faith and practice.

2 Tim 3:16,17; Heb 6:12; 2 Pet 1:19,20



2. We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; Who is the creator and sustainer of all things and worthy of our worship and praise.

Mt 28:19; Gen 1:1,2; Jn 1:1-3; Col 1:15-17; Heb 1:1-3



3. We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death for our sins by His shed blood on the cross, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal visible return in power and glory.

Jn 1:1-18; Lk 1:26-35; Rom 3:24,25; 1 Pet 2:24; Jn 11:1-45; 14:1-3; Acts 1:11; Heb 6:14,15; 7:26; 9:11-14; Rev 19:11-16



4. We believe that based upon Christ's death for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential. We believe that all people are lost and without God in their natural state; but by the grace of God those who exercise genuine faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are saved - justified, baptized into his death and born again, from above, by the Holy Spirit.

Jn 1:12,13; 3:1-21; Rom 3:23,24; Eph 2:8,9; 1 Pet 1:23



5. We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit. By His indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life, and is spiritually gifted for ministry to others.

Acts 2:1-4; 17-21 (cf.Joel 2:28-30); 1 Cor 6:19,20;12:7



6. We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life to be f

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  14:20:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Appropriate candidate or not, it will be a mistake to underestimate her drawing power. As we have seen already, she has given the RR a boner. I hate to say this, but some independent woman will vote for her just because she is a woman. Hopefully not many.

She will be coached. With a good set of sound-bites and with some poise, she will probably be a decent campaigner and even debater, no matter what she actually knows. It's not as though she will be writing her acceptance speech.

She is good looking, personable and, dare I say, not black. And that will be good enough for some people.

I'm just sayin'

Overestimating the intelligence of the American voter is also a mistake. We have much evidence to support that.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  14:45:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil said:
but some independent woman will vote for her just because she is a woman

Any woman who is swayed by this one... was never voting democrat to start with. She is the exact opposite of Hillary Clinton on every major issue (except iraq).


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  15:22:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've seen a couple of polls, which at this point mean nothing, and she is running in the 30's approval, with a lot of people noncommittal.

I am getting the impression that she is a small-town politician with all of the baggage that entails -- she knows everybody and they all know her. She's in a quite different league now and I wonder how well she'll adapt.

Still nothing about the malfeasance investigation from the national news(?), and I'm not holding my breath.

She has been compared to Dan Quayle in a derogatory way, but I remind: Bush Quayle won! I am fascinated by this very odd VP choice, but I'm getting a little weary of stumbling over her everywhere I go.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  15:31:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If she can't take a spirited debate, does she really need to be one heartbeat away from being President?

I say let Biden have at her.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  15:55:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have no idea if this is in context or not, but if so, then the Dems have really put their foot in it.

The comments are really something. I have to wonder, given the site itself, if that's taken in context? Ah well.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 08/30/2008 15:58:08
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  16:25:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

I have no idea if this is in context or not, but if so, then the Dems have really put their foot in it.

The comments are really something. I have to wonder, given the site itself, if that's taken in context? Ah well.


You know that if the comments are about how bad "the libs" are, these aren't people who were going to vote for Obama anyhow...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  16:36:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That sort of thing is just monumentally stupid. Do these people never learn from the likes of Ronald Reagan or Jesse Jackson?

Always assume there is an open mike nearby, knuckleheads!

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  16:57:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

That sort of thing is just monumentally stupid. Do these people never learn from the likes of Ronald Reagan or Jesse Jackson?

Always assume there is an open mike nearby, knuckleheads!
Indeed, and in this day & age you're apt to be recorded with a cigarette lighter. Well, I'm streachin' a little bit but not much.

What all candidates for political office, be it president or the guy who counts the county's road-kill, need is a healthy portion of paranoia.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt."




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26007 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  20:21:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Indeed, and in this day & age you're apt to be recorded with a cigarette lighter.
Which is obviously why everyone's so hot to ban smoking.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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