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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2008 : 17:40:56
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Well, you all know about how IDist and YECers are always complaining about how "evolutionists" are "censoring" their views, right?
Well, their hypocrosy stands revealed again.
The world's best known wildlife broadcaster, Sir David Attenborough, has called on the BBC to stop Christian fundamentalists from deleting references to evolution from his documentaries.
Sir David Attenborough: I am on the side of the biologists
Censored versions of Sir David's award winning programmes have been broadcast in Holland without any references to evolution, speciation, descent and timescales of millions of years, after being censored by Christian creationists who are opposed to Charles Darwin's ideas.
"Instead of saying "70 million years ago, something happens," they say "a very long time ago something happens". They also omit paragraphs such as: "This is inherited from my warm-blooded ancestors,"" Sir David told the Telegraph. "I would much rather they kept to the letter, as far as that is possible, of what I said." |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 09/10/2008 19:00:59
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 01:24:05 [Permalink]
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Don't you think this is old news?
Anyway, the Netherlands has a small, but devout, group of fundamentalist Christians. Interestingly, they are more like left wing fundamentalists, much more socialistic in their approach. But that apparantly doesn't detain them from being stupid. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2008 : 07:10:23 [Permalink]
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I haven't been to the Netherlands in a long time... (not that I can afford to go nowdays with the US dollar falling in value)
But I never got the impression that any significant percentage of the population there was crazy fundamentalist religious.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 07:23:24 [Permalink]
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Best time then, to publically refute them and prevent them from getting a foothold. I suspect it's too late for the States.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 13:33:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I haven't been to the Netherlands in a long time... (not that I can afford to go nowdays with the US dollar falling in value)
But I never got the impression that any significant percentage of the population there was crazy fundamentalist religious.
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You wouldn't. They're concentrated in a number of places along our own mini-bible belt. The smaller towns in those places you probably wouldn't visit, the larger ones have a significantly large secular population to make the Christian fundamentalist population harder to notice. In total, they probably form around 5% of the total population, concentrated mainly in the south-west. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 19:57:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Dude
I haven't been to the Netherlands in a long time... (not that I can afford to go nowdays with the US dollar falling in value)
But I never got the impression that any significant percentage of the population there was crazy fundamentalist religious.
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You wouldn't. They're concentrated in a number of places along our own mini-bible belt. The smaller towns in those places you probably wouldn't visit, the larger ones have a significantly large secular population to make the Christian fundamentalist population harder to notice. In total, they probably form around 5% of the total population, concentrated mainly in the south-west.
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Just curious: How is it that they can get the evolution cut out of national broadcasts if they are such a small part of the population?At 5% they really shouldn't have that kind of influence. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2008 : 21:52:00 [Permalink]
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Been to Nijmegen several times. When I was in the military we used to go there once a year to participate in the "Nijmegen March". A 4 day event where teams from NATO alligned military units do a "25mile a day for 4 days" road march.
Mostly, when I when there for recreation, is was Amsterdam. Love that place! 
Back in the day US troops and American civilians were always treated quite well by the people in the Netherlands. Always friendly. The women, I think, found a US midwestern accent to be "exotic". GOOD TIMES!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 02:25:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by leoofno
Originally posted by tomk80
You wouldn't. They're concentrated in a number of places along our own mini-bible belt. The smaller towns in those places you probably wouldn't visit, the larger ones have a significantly large secular population to make the Christian fundamentalist population harder to notice. In total, they probably form around 5% of the total population, concentrated mainly in the south-west.
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Just curious: How is it that they can get the evolution cut out of national broadcasts if they are such a small part of the population?At 5% they really shouldn't have that kind of influence.
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That is a result of the segmentation in the dutch social life up to the '60s. There were four major social groups, protestant/evangelical, catholic, liberal/capitalist and socialist/communist. Many social activities were divided along these social lines. Especially in big cities, musical and sports associations, schools and also broadcasting corporations would be divided along these lines, with different institutions for each social segment.
For the public broadcasting channels, this means the following. We have three public (ie, state funded) broadcasting channels on the dutch television. These channels are run cooperatively by a number of publicly funded broadcasting cooperations, which originally derive from these social segmentations. KRO was originally catholic, VARA was originally socialist, NCRV was originally protestant. Later, these were supplemented with even more broadcasting cooperations, like TROS and Veronica, which both started as pirate broadcasters run by the youth (ie hippies) on barges or platforms in the North Sea in the '60s and '70s. Even more recently (in the '90s) BNN was started by the youth of today, since the hippy broadcasters were getting boring. These many publicly funded broadcasters divide the time slots on the three dutch public channels and are free to fill in these time slots with their own programs. Last I checked, there were about 20 of these public broadcasters for radio and television. The system was (and is) organised in this way to assure that every segment in the population had it's own publicly funded channels, this way ensuring freedom of expression for all these segments, independently of the politically dominant segment at the time. The system is still in place for the same reason, although the segmentation is all but gone these days.
The EO (Evangelische Omroep (evangelical broadcasting cooperation) was the broadcasting cooperation that bought and edited the documentaries of David Attenborough. It is one of these publicly funded broadcasters and one of the few that still adheres strongly to its original base. It can cut out evolution because the broadcasting cooperation determines the programming, not the government.
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 02:30:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Been to Nijmegen several times. When I was in the military we used to go there once a year to participate in the "Nijmegen March". A 4 day event where teams from NATO alligned military units do a "25mile a day for 4 days" road march.
Mostly, when I when there for recreation, is was Amsterdam. Love that place!
Back in the day US troops and American civilians were always treated quite well by the people in the Netherlands. Always friendly. The women, I think, found a US midwestern accent to be "exotic". GOOD TIMES!
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Hehe, I still have to walk that one. It's really gained a lot of traction the last 10 years. It's one of those events that get national attention each year. I fear that my turn to walk it is drawing close, since many of my friends already finished it in the last few years.
And yes, Amsterdam is great. I moved from Maastricht to Utrecht recently, shortening my traveling time to it from 3 hours to half an hour. Life is good (although moving did have the nasty side effect of increasing my traveling time to Paris with an hour  ). |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 04:51:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by leoofno
Originally posted by tomk80
You wouldn't. They're concentrated in a number of places along our own mini-bible belt. The smaller towns in those places you probably wouldn't visit, the larger ones have a significantly large secular population to make the Christian fundamentalist population harder to notice. In total, they probably form around 5% of the total population, concentrated mainly in the south-west.
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Just curious: How is it that they can get the evolution cut out of national broadcasts if they are such a small part of the population?At 5% they really shouldn't have that kind of influence.
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That is a result of the segmentation in the dutch social life up to the '60s. ....{lotsa good stuff cut]...It can cut out evolution because the broadcasting cooperation determines the programming, not the government.
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Very interesting. Thanks. |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 05:09:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by leoofno
Very interesting. Thanks.
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Your welcome. The history of dutch cultural segmentation from the 20's to the present is really interesting, but overshadowed much by a certain violent episode that lasted only 5 years and that we share with so many other countries. It's a pity really. Despite our teachers best efforts, in high school you tend to view history like this:
'20s and '30s: boring
5 years of shooting: the good stuff.
'45 and onwards: boring.
Only later you realize that the good stuff is actually quite boring, and the boring stuff is actually the good stuff. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 09/12/2008 05:10:32 |
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Attenborough wants creationist censorsing to end
