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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
 Posted - 10/06/2008 : 11:08:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Making foolish people look foolish is no great trick.
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Aye. Making foolish people understand that they are foolish. That's nearly impossible.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 11:28:16 [Permalink]
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I checked and it does not show anywhere in a rayon of 60 miles from around my place; suggesting that the whole of the Bible belt may have been omitted from the distribution...
I guess I'll wait for it to come out on DVD and then organize a showing for our atheist society...
Between Dawkins and that movie, not to mention a few more, less publicized books, it seems to me like atheism has become much more public in recent months... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 11:39:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Between Dawkins and that movie, not to mention a few more, less publicized books, it seems to me like atheism has become much more public in recent months...
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I think it is FAR more prevalent than most think...or admit to. You see this 95% are religious stat being thrown around (at least in America). Well I'm not buying it. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 14:14:53 [Permalink]
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Okay, Religulous made $6,972 per theater during its opening weekend. Expelled made $2,824 during its opening weekend, or 40.5% of Maher's take.
So it could be said that Maher's film was about 2.5 times as successful as Stein's, which had a wider release and more advertising. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 18:45:53 [Permalink]
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Well unfortunately I think it would be virtually impossible for him to make it any other way.....no religious person is going to interview with Bill Maher knowing what the films is about. Shitty maybe....but obvious. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 10:38:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
That film is not being shown in the entire state of Alabama, so I'll have to wait for DVD.
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In Charlotte, NC I currently have only one place to see the movie, Regal Manor Twin. Hope it rains either Saturday or Sunday afternoon. Be a shame to be inside if the weather is nice. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 19:40:53 [Permalink]
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| I saw Maher's plug for the movie on the Daily Show yesterday. A good show. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 20:28:55 [Permalink]
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Dave: | Instead, the film is mostly just allowing religious folks to ridicule themselves, followed by a short editorial. |
I like it better this way. Maher echoes a lot of what Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins have voiced recently, but Maher's film is so much more palettable because instead of doing it under the banner of atheism, he does it under the banner of doubt. He also uses humor. His point was that these beliefs when taken literally, even when they are harmless, are still irrational and quite silly. And then after we all see that and laugh with Bill, he points out that irrationality is pretty damn dangerous with modern weapons of war mixed in. He doesn't need to use the type of scare tactics that Harris uses, and which put religious moderates on the defensive.
I agree with this from Gorgo: | It's not about making fun of people. It's about realizing how absurd these ideas are, and calling it what it is. |
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2008 : 20:31:43 [Permalink]
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| It should be noted that Maher also uses some more rational religious people who don't seem to have much literal faith to help make his arguments. In particular, the astronomer from the Vatican, and then a Catholic priests who basically laughs his ass off with Bill about all the stupid ideas that many Catholics believe in literally. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 00:08:49 [Permalink]
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marf said:
and which put religious moderates on the defensive.
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I'm sure we have had this argument before.... but there is no such thing as a religious moderate. If you engage in behavior based on unevidenced belief you are not rational.
I'll agree that some religious beliefs are less harmful than others, but I think they are all harmful in some way. The least irrational are the gateway to the truly irrational.
Saw this movie today and I thought it was quite well done. Maher won't call himself an atheist often (he has in the past), but as Marf says he doesn't take the really hard line some others take.
Also, its funny. Very funny in some instances.
Worth the admission, imo.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 07:29:18 [Permalink]
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| but there is no such thing as a religious moderate. If you engage in behavior based on unevidenced belief you are not rational. |
But one could make the lazy argument that nobody is ever purely rational; not even Mr Spock!
I'll agree that some religious beliefs are less harmful than others, but I think they are all harmful in some way. The least irrational are the gateway to the truly irrational. |
I would consider that to be trailing close from the slippery slope argument.
I can think of many people that are religious but perfectly rational in every other aspect of their life.
Religious beliefs have a long history as far as negatively impacting the world is concerned.
However, in some case, they might have some positive impact too, giving solace to some people, contributing to social order (by giving rules) and charity (some people may only give to buy their way into even, it might be hypocritical, but the person receiving does not care).
So, while it is always easy for a religion to devolve into 'a force for evil'; I am not confident to say that under no circumstances will the positive impacts that religious feelings can have ever outweigh the negative one. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 07:37:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
| but there is no such thing as a religious moderate. If you engage in behavior based on unevidenced belief you are not rational. |
But one could make the lazy argument that nobody is ever purely rational; not even Mr Spock! |
But irrational is the point of religion. Not just nonrational, as some say, but irrational. It is a denial of reality.
You know some people who have rejected religion to the point where they are rational in most things, but where they accept religion (again, the belief in a supernatural ruler of the universe) then they are irrational. IMO |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 09:03:26 [Permalink]
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Simon said:
| But one could make the lazy argument that nobody is ever purely rational |
That isn't a lazy argument, its a statement of fact. No one is purely rational.
The issue is when you accept irrational explanations and base portions of your life or actions on the irrational premises.
I would consider that to be trailing close from the slippery slope argument.
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There are many examples in history, the crusades, the burning of "witches", the rise of fundamentalism in the US, suicide bombings, etc. All of those things arose from (arguably) more moderate forms of religion. I don't consider it a slippery slope to say that "moderate" religious beliefs give rise to the extreme.
I can think of many people that are religious but perfectly rational in every other aspect of their life.
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Sure. But I bet you can think of more people who are religious and not rational in other parts of their life.
Just because some people can keep religion out of the rest of their professional work is no reason to excuse religion.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Religulous - Recommendation
