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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  09:30:29  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread is for a discussion of the Vice Presidential Debate.

Here are two articles from POLITICO that suggests what we might see on Thursday night's VP debate.

On small stage, Palin scored big debate wins
Against that experienced opposition, Palin proved herself to be a comfortable and confident debater, not exactly deeply versed in the issues but unusually adept at dodging controversy and quick to take advantage of opponents' missteps. Not one to throw an unnecessary punch, Palin took a patient approach, waiting for her rivals to expose their weak points - and then striking fast.

"Anyone who watches any of her previous debates would be impressed by her debating skills," Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said Saturday, in an attempt to raise expectations for Palin's performance. "She has performed very, very well."


Biden's strategy: Go easy on Palin

If Sarah Palin goofs, flounders, stumbles or blunders during her debate against Joe Biden on Thursday night, Biden is going to let it slide.

“If she makes a gaffe, he underplays it,” one of the people prepping Biden for his vice presidential debate told me. “At most, he says, ‘I am not sure what Gov. Palin meant there.'”

There are three reasons for this. First, Biden does not want to look condescending. For the same reason, he plans on referring to Palin as “Gov. Palin” during the debate and never as “Sarah.” (He will sometimes refer to John McCain as “John,” however, because they have been senators together for many years.)

Second, Biden knows the press is going to pounce on any mistakes, and so he does not need to.

Third, and most important, Sarah Palin is not Biden's true target.




Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  09:50:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't know if I'll watch this one... might make my head implode listening to retard-girl regurgutate her talking points.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  09:57:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

This thread is for a discussion of the Vice Presidential Debate.

Third, and most important, Sarah Palin is not Biden's true target.

I agree for the most part. I expect Babbler Palin to be fairly well scripted and on message. Even though the article suggests that the press will hold her accountable I do not think that she should be given a total pass during the debate. When she trotts out the egregious lies and assertions of the campaign she should be asked to support her statements. Asked politely of course. This is where I believe that she will find herself in babbler mode, off script.

Perhaps in time she too will be able to say, "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  10:24:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Will she be allowed to get away with "I'll get back to you" to the American public this time?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  10:48:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Moak:
When she trotts out the egregious lies and assertions of the campaign she should be asked to support her statements.

Based on my interpretation of Biden's strategy as presented in the article, the assertions made by the McPalin campaign in general will be addressed. I don't think the plan is to give her a pass. The plan seems to be to hammer on McCain. I'm sure Biden will welcome any opportunity to do that, especially if Palin brings up any particulars.

If she makes a gaff, the press will pick it up. Hell, they have been doing that relentlessly for the last couple of weeks, as they should be doing. I don't think there are really all that many McCain supporters anymore who actually think she was a good pick.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Vic Daring
New Member

49 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  10:50:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Vic Daring a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Two things:

1. Obama surrugates should be working to reject this "low expectations" game. The pre-debate message should be "This is serious business and the American people have a right to extremely high expectations from all participants." Or something like that.

2. If I'm coaching Palin, I make sure that in her opening remark, she says something like "I've been looking forward to this evening. As have the American people and, no doubt, the writing staff at Saturday Night Live." Or something like that.

The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  10:57:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Will she be allowed to get away with "I'll get back to you" to the American public this time?
A line like that needs no response. It's so stupid, anything further would be redundant.

The most I would do if I were Biden is just turn to the audience, Johnny Carson style.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  11:23:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the starts making a mistake; I think a little nudge from Bidden would be all what is required to send her spiralling totally out of tracks. And we now how bad she is at that.

But, one thing not mentioned is that she is a woman. If she is in difficulty; even more if Bidden appears to be an ass to her, I am afraid that many people will tend to get protective. That's just the way people work. They often tend to feel knightly and protective toward women.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  11:35:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Vic Daring
1. Obama surrugates should be working to reject this "low expectations" game. The pre-debate message should be "This is serious business and the American people have a right to extremely high expectations from all participants." Or something like that.
Yes, definitely. Set her up to fail, don't just assume she'll go down in flames on her own.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  12:16:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This poll arrived just in time to get her stress level rising before the debate, especially considering she is part of their image problem...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  12:24:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

This poll arrived just in time to get her stress level rising before the debate, especially considering she is part of their image problem...
Yeah, I have been poll tracking since I became bedridden, which is over with now. I find the site I've linked to below useful because they track all major polls and include in their menu battleground states and delegate projections. Obama has been moving up steadily since the stock market tanked and McCain started his shenanigans in Washington. Also, Palin has definitely been a problem for the McPalin ticket.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  14:14:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

The most I would do if I were Biden is just turn to the audience, Johnny Carson style.


(Just a footnote)
Believe it or not, Johnny was a big fan of classic comedy and got that reaction from Oliver Hardy. In many Laurel & Hardy "two reelers", when Stan screwed something up or said something totally confused Ollie would just look silently into the camera for a second. It takes the audience in and figuratively says: "See what I have to put up with?" The reaction was also used in films by the generally unappreciated director and comic genius, Charley Chase.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  14:17:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Chippewa

Originally posted by Kil

The most I would do if I were Biden is just turn to the audience, Johnny Carson style.


(Just a footnote)
Believe it or not, Johnny was a big fan of classic comedy and got that reaction from Oliver Hardy. In many Laurel & Hardy "two reelers", when Stan screwed something up or said something totally confused Ollie would just look silently into the camera for a second. It takes the audience in and figuratively says: "See what I have to put up with?" The reaction was also used in films by the generally unappreciated director and comic genius, Charley Chase.
I thought that he got it from Jack Benny who Carson often sited as a major influence on his style. Seems to me that the Oliver Hardy look was one of exasperation. The Benny look was bemused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUd1-_91YTk

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  15:41:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

I thought that he got it from Jack Benny who Carson often sited as a major influence on his style. Seems to me that the Oliver Hardy look was one of exasperation. The Benny look was bemused.


Could be - Carson was a friend of Benny's. Benny was a great one, (and only 39 years old.)

Biden would likely be better served by "bemused" than "exasperation" if he happens to glance at the cameras. Whatever happens, he'll be focusing on the message and the Democratic ticket's image.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  16:55:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So as a build-up, here is a comparisons of how the two answered the same questions from Couric. I'll let you guess which one really has no clue, and which one sounds like he (or she!) has sort of paid attention to the rest of the non-moose-hunting world over the last few years....
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26006 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2008 :  18:29:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

So as a build-up, here is a comparisons of how the two answered the same questions from Couric. I'll let you guess which one really has no clue, and which one sounds like he (or she!) has sort of paid attention to the rest of the non-moose-hunting world over the last few years....
All that link showed was how Tina Fey Palin answered them. At least for me.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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