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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 12/05/2008 : 14:13:43 [Permalink]
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It's not as anti-human as the stuff he was saying in a previous post that Simon pointed out.
Still, it's a good thing to keep in mind!
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He; my comment finally filtered through...
Really, the idea is nothing new:
-Evil exist on earth so...
-Either God does not want to stop it (he is not infinitely good)
-Or he is unable to stop it (he is not all powerful)
-He is unable AND unwilling to stop it...
It's nothing new and there is no convincing answer to it and apologetics only can cop-out of answering and brushing it under the carpet... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 12/05/2008 14:38:18 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 18:16:50 [Permalink]
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I replied to him again. In it, I linked him to my reply on this forum.
Yes. The one with the profanity in it. I don't care to clean it up for him...he's already seen this thread anyway. It's not like I hide where I'm from.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 20:37:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
I replied to him again. In it, I linked him to my reply on this forum.
Yes. The one with the profanity in it. I don't care to clean it up for him...he's already seen this thread anyway. It's not like I hide where I'm from.
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It was a mere matter of time until he shut you down for posing all the questions he was so crudely dodging. Personally, I think that since he was never playing fair, and was in no way responding to you relevant questions, going out in a blaze of glory is a legitimate solution. Skeptics are quite rightly held to a standard of logical debate, but that doesn't mean we are unemotional robots. We also have a right to righteous indignation.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 21:27:02 [Permalink]
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I sent a short post to the moderator:
Hi Trish!
Has Luis gotten back to you yet? (I haven't seen any posts under his name.)
(She was under the impression that she'd hooked a live one, who would read the Gospel of John that night & get back to her, a changed man.) |
I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 21:31:03 [Permalink]
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| I am able to judge him as good since the results albeit using means that are wicked, or evil will be for his good and His Glory. |
| And since only God knows this, and since man knows the mind of God as revealed in scripture, and he says that its good for sin and calamity to occur or death and disaster because the ends will be better and his plan is good. I can safely say He is good. |
So, the end justify the means?
Funny, in my experience moral relativism is rarely a characteristic of Religious.
Of course, the argument for greater good make sense. It is sometime necessary to sacrifice a small number for the greater good (please note that it is the opposite of what the Biblical God is doing, he is actually sacrificing a large number for the good of a tiny minority).
Anyway... the argument does make sense. As far as mankind would be considered.
But, we are talking about an omnipotent divinity. Why would evil and sin be necessary anyway?
Either God was unable to achieve his goal without going through it, and he is not really omnipotent or he could have achieved the same result without evil, sin, suffering and choose to inflict it without it being required. Then, the existence of pain and all is unnecessary and God is evil. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2008 : 22:45:26 [Permalink]
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So if god were lying and scriptures were a falsehood, he has no personal moral compass that would allow him to determine this. When someone admits he has no way of telling when he is wrong, and shows no sign of caring, then trying to argue with him is a futile exercise.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/05/2008 22:46:03 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 20:19:50 [Permalink]
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Well, Moak: He's taken a shot at the both of us now.
When I tried to post a reply: Guess what came up:
| New comments have been disabled for this post by a blog administrator. |
Cowardly prick. So be it then. Fortunately, that's the only post that he's disabled comments on.
So, I've made my last reply here.
Yes, my last reply. I've no more interest in the pigeon droppings that he calls his "pearls". He has no consistent basis for morality, and he completely misses the point I made about the argument about the Markan verses. I've explained it well enough, I think, there.
Sheesh. I thought I insulted people in this forum here!
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 12/06/2008 21:06:51 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 22:44:08 [Permalink]
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Of course...
1) You don't need a debate to be settled to make temporary conclusions.
In fact, a scientific (history being scientific in method) is NEVER considered to be definitively settled.
2) Since when do you need a proof to argue that the suffering of children is a bad thing? Most people would argue that it is self-evident. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2008 : 23:44:33 [Permalink]
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This was the point I was trying to get across: if he admitted that there was a debate going on about those verses in Mark, my assertion that they were a part of the bible was no less valid than his assertion that they were not, (and that he shouldn't be such a prick about it)
Who knows? Maybe I should have worded it better in the first place.
Meh. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 12/06/2008 23:45:27 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2008 : 03:10:05 [Permalink]
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I could have and maybe should have also given javier a link to Evolution is a fact and theory page.
I could have pointed out that besides there being so much evidence for evolution that it's accepted as fact; scientists are well aware of what would falsify it (fossil vertebrates in the precambrian) etc. and are always on the look out.
(yes, we talked about evolution a wee bit...he mentioned it, I talked about it)
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 12/07/2008 03:29:56 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2008 : 09:04:53 [Permalink]
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Did he?
I only remember one passing sentence where he used the old tired 'randomness' argument; and the passing implication that if we are not God's special creation, then we are all worthless and can't develop our own moral.
In which case, yes, I guess a couple of links to evolutionary pages might have been good. Most probably useless, but it's always better to give people a chance to read about what the TOE really is about, rather than just the deformed version Cretintionists pass to each other like a mental herpes. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2008 : 17:09:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
]So, I've made my last reply here.
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And without comment the following response was made to the same.
MOakley said: This just might be the most hideous of apologetics that I have ever read or heard in support of the Christian God. At best this makes it seem that the Christian God is indifferent to the heinous brutality suffered by the smallest, most helpless, of his creation. At worst in makes the Christian God seeming approving of such brutality since it is part of his plan. I can't help but believe that should the Christian God exists that he would experience total exasperation that one of his faithful followers would say such a dispicable thing in his defense.
Javier said: And on a forum says:
MOakley said at SFN: Since this idiot's word caused me such anger I posted the following. Maybe it will pass moderation.
Javier said in a blog post that was immendiately closed: There is no argument offered, in fact there is only a rather emotive response. This is unbecoming of the 'rational' atheists. I'd assume they would know that simple emotive responses do nothing to establish a case against God being good.
There was no argument intended. It was a criticism of your chilling attitude concerning the brutal abuse of children. That rape, torture, and murder of children was OK since it was a part of the Christain God's plan. Anger is a perfectly reasonable response to your callous justification of pain inflicted on children. And then you choose to focus solely on the anger expressed at SFN and dodge the clear and pointed criticism of your statement. You, Sir, are desperate to believe beyond all reason. |
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2008 : 17:33:24 [Permalink]
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Oh, that was good, Moakley!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 02:50:37 [Permalink]
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Ok, I lied. This is my last reply.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 12/08/2008 02:51:08 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2008 : 11:57:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Ok, I lied. This is my last reply.
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That thread is something, eh?
Still, speaking for myself, I wouldn't waste my time on those people... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Time for a smackdown
