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sailingsoul
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2830 Posts

Posted - 12/21/2011 :  16:18:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Randal Carter

Hmmmm ... In the past, I used both DHEA and testosterone for hormone therapy. Could see nor feel any advantage to the DHEA -- took it for six months. My doctor kept me on a hormone replacement regime for testosterone for about five years. Did see some improvement in my moods and felt better for a while. Wasn't particularly exercising or working out but did stay somewhat active. Last year, I started going back to the gym and following the federal exercise guidelines of at least 150 minutes of aerobic and 150 minutes of non-aerobic exercise under the guidance of a trainer. My personal feeling is that the drug regime did not do nearly as much for me as eating good, healthy food, exercising regularly, and getting a good night's sleep every night. Cost me a whole lot less than a couple of grand per month.
Not many people have the luxury to spend 5 hours a workout staying fit. Jack Lalanne passed away Jan. 2011, at 96. Besides daily exercise / weights the only extra expense he promoted was his juicer. People promoting this costly crap are in it for the money, plain and simple.
Article link,,,
In 1976, LaLanne commemorated the United States Bicentennial by swimming one mile in Long Beach Harbor. Despite being shackled and handcuffed, he managed to tow 13 boats (one for each of the 13 original colonies) with a total of 76 people.

In 1979, when LaLanne was 65, he towed 65 boats in Lake Ashinoko, near Tokyo, Japan. Yes, he was handcuffed and shackled, but this time, the boats were filled with 6,500 pounds of Louisiana Pacific wood pulp.

A year later, in 1980, LaLanne, now 66, towed 10 boats in North Miami, Fla. The boats carried 77 people, and he towed them for over one mile in less than one hour.

LaLanne's last public stunt was in 1994, when he celebrated his 80th birthday by getting handcuffed and shackled in order to fight strong winds and currents and swim 1.5 miles while towing 80 boats with 80 people from the Queensway Bay Bridge in the Long Beach Harbor to the Queen Mary.

I don't believe anyone on steroids and DHEA has done better than what Jack did in his life, not even close. I'll pass and save my cash and take the advice of Jack Lalanne. Exercize daily and eat properly.


There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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bngbuck
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USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 12/22/2011 :  01:10:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
sailingsoul.....

In 1979, when LaLanne was 65, he towed 65 boats in Lake Ashinoko, near Tokyo, Japan. Yes, he was handcuffed and shackled, but this time, the boats were filled with 6,500 pounds of Louisiana Pacific wood pulp.

Link?
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3mts
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1 Post

Posted - 12/25/2011 :  06:27:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send 3mts a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have been on a testosterone replacement plan for about two years, at the beginning my level was supposed to be between 185 and 210 on my labs scale but was only 13.5. My Dr. wrote a prescription and told me I could use a pharmaceutical companies product and take 6 months to raise my level or go to a local pharmacy that makes compound prescriptions and raise it faster with a testosterone lipoderm cream that I rub in once a day. I also take DHEA and pregnanalone supplements. In a month I started to have more energy and my sex drive increased. In six months I lost 20 pounds doing my same daily activities that I couldn't get off before. With the cream it is not synthesised in the liver which is why the injections cause liver damage. My plan cost $60.00 a month for the cream and about $20.00 for the supplements. I will turn 49 in April and feel better than I did at 39. I am not as muscular as Dr. Life but I don't work out because I have a strenuous enough job that I get plenty of exercise. If you think your testosterone is low see your Dr. and get a cream not something you have to inject everyday that has many side effects some that are not known yet.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9672 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2011 :  09:24:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by 3mts

With the cream it is not synthesised in the liver which is why the injections cause liver damage.

I can't make sense of this. Could you please elaborate why a testosterone compound can/should be synthesised in the body? Isn't in just a matter of making the body absorb the testosterone? Then don't understand why there would be a difference between injecting it or rubbing it in as a cream (except for the advantage of not having to handle needles and related risks).

Also, what's body mass? 20 may be a lot, or not that much a loss depending on where you're starting from...
Edit (fixed the last question, I didn't pay enough attention to your post at first)


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Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 12/25/2011 10:22:41
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sailingsoul
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2830 Posts

Posted - 12/25/2011 :  14:18:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

sailingsoul.....

In 1979, when LaLanne was 65, he towed 65 boats in Lake Ashinoko, near Tokyo, Japan. Yes, he was handcuffed and shackled, but this time, the boats were filled with 6,500 pounds of Louisiana Pacific wood pulp.

Link?
I got two for ya. A more complete list of Jack's life long achievements from his official web site here and this link where I got the quote you read.

I cannot verify the truthfulness or exact accuracy of his reported feats. As I never witnessed them myself. As can happen whenever anything is reported by large number of writers small or large errors in accuracy may occur. I would expect the feats are for the most part true and not made up.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 12/26/2011 :  04:13:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ss.....

from wiki


(As reported on Jack LaLanne's website) These accounts are not necessarily entirely accurate descriptions of what LaLanne actually did. See the 1974 Alcatraz Island to Fisherman's Wharf swim (below) for an illustration of one difference between the website account and objective reporting of the same event.
Followed by:
1974 (age 60): For the second time, he swam from Alcatraz Island to Fisherman's Wharf. Again, he was handcuffed, but this time he was also shackled and towed a 1,000-pound (450 kg; 71 st) boat. At least that's according to his website. However, according to an account of this event published the day after it occurred in the Los Angeles Times, written by Philip Hager, a Times staff writer, LaLanne was neither handcuffed nor shackled if each of those terms has the unconventional meaning of "tightly binding the wrists or ankles together with a pair of metal fasteners" although that's not how handcuffs or shackles work.
Another twenty minutes or so with Google or Bing reveals several other eyebrow-raised comments regarding the LaLanne PR efforts of the 60's and 70's.

It certainly does appear that LaLanne was a remarkably well publicized strongman of his era - comparable to Charles Atlas, née Angelo Siciliano, a newspaper phenomenon of the 30's and 40's; Hermann Görner, a famous german giant; Louis Cyr, "the strongest man who ever lived"; and Eugen Sandow, Flo Zeigfeld's first big star (notably featured in a short film by the Edison Studios in 1894).

In recent years there have been many highly publicized strongmen - Jamie Reeves, Magnús Ver Magnússon, and even Arnold Schwarzenegger, he of some transient political fame.





LaLanne was a consummate showman, in the mould of Charles Atlas - the "97 pound weakling" who got sand kicked in his face, so he invented "Dynamic Tension" - an exercise program that you too could buy by mail order and become a superman.



As to the towing (by swimming) of 65 boats filled with 6,500 pounds of wood pulp, I really wonder how much energy the hydrodynamics of such a feat would require. I think of tugboats towing barges loaded with tons of ore or freight, and the relatively huge diesel or ICE engines that power them. The foot-pounds of energy necessary to simply overcome the beginning inertia attendant to sixty-five boats and 6500 pounds of load weight appears to be pretty large. Could one human (OK, superhuman) being actually generate that much propellant force by movements of his (shackled?) hands, feet, legs, and body?

If anyone here has studied enough classical mechanics in college level physics to hazard an educated guess as to the hydraulic thrust levels necessary to overcome the static inertia inherent in the weight of sixty-five boats combined with 6500 pounds of dead weight, I would really be interested in the number. And whether or not it was commensurate with the highest possible energy output of a vigorously threshing, fantastically strong human being, shackles or not.

It is way over my head - back in the fifties, I gave up on an engineering career at somewhere midway between calculus and differential equations. Off the top of my head I would say that LaLanne's alleged feat is impossible.

But the top of one's head is not the place to go for facts!



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danders9
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1 Post

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  10:57:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send danders9 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Fripp

Sorry Simon, but in reference to steroids, you're talking out your ass. According to the CDC, using 2007 as an example, the stats are as follows:

Tobacco = 435,000 deaths
alcohol = 75,000
steroids = 3

That's not a misprint.

The #1 cause of ER visits: alcohol
#2: cocaine
#3: marijuana

Steroids? #142

Why are steroids so demonized? Who knows? Many of our laws are in place for any number of illogical reasons. Marijuana hasn't a single reported death, but it's illegal and alcohol is legal.

Read these following side effects and guess which drug I'm talking about:

Depression, convulsions, anxiety, jaundice, myocardial infarction, eczema, abscess, vaginal pain, vaginal discharge.

Answer: Vitamin C.

Every side effect from steroids is reversible. As with anything, the problems from steroids occur from abuse.

Steroid fear is alarmist in the extreme. A great documentary to watch in regards to steroids is Bigger, Faster, Stronger.


Fripp,

Right back at you! You are the one talking out your ass! What do you think Bigger, Stronger, Faster is going to promote? Herbs? You're foolish to the nth degree! Steroids in the long haul, shut down the endocrine system. And the Vitamin C crap you posted was in the same B,F,S documentary. The problem with that is Vitamin C in its natural form does not have these side effects. Ascorbic Acid, which is FAKE vitamin C and how it is commonly sold, does. Anything to promote unnatural body building agents and anti-aging, I guess, huh?

And FWIW, cenegenics is nothing but hype. Don't be fooled by the photos! Nothing new here, just hype and lost money for the consumer! But if you want, just pay these guys because that's all they want - your money!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  11:38:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by danders9

The problem with that is Vitamin C in its natural form does not have these side effects.
No, you've completely missed the point.
Ascorbic Acid, which is FAKE vitamin C and how it is commonly sold, does.
What an embarrassing thing to say. The word "ascorbic" is derived from the Latin phrase for "no scurvy." L-Ascorbic Acid is Vitamin C, they're just different words for the same molecule. It's also known as "2-Oxo-L-threo-hexono-1,4-lactone-2,3-enediol," "ascorbate," "(R)-3,4-dihydroxy-5-((S)- 1,2-dihydroxyethyl)furan-2(5H)-one" and "C6H8O6."

And there's no difference in physiological effect if it's "natural" or factory-made, anyway.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Why not question something for a change?
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  12:30:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If it's natural it's all good? Arsenic is all natural, along with plutonium. "Natural" means nothing when it comes to food or supplements except to those sell smoke and mirrors. To them it means millions.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Fripp
SFN Regular

USA
727 Posts

Posted - 01/09/2012 :  13:11:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fripp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by danders9


Fripp,

Right back at you! You are the one talking out your ass! What do you think Bigger, Stronger, Faster is going to promote? Herbs? You're foolish to the nth degree! Steroids in the long haul, shut down the endocrine system. And the Vitamin C crap you posted was in the same B,F,S documentary. The problem with that is Vitamin C in its natural form does not have these side effects. Ascorbic Acid, which is FAKE vitamin C and how it is commonly sold, does. Anything to promote unnatural body building agents and anti-aging, I guess, huh?

And FWIW, cenegenics is nothing but hype. Don't be fooled by the photos! Nothing new here, just hype and lost money for the consumer! But if you want, just pay these guys because that's all they want - your money!


Nice try but you failed to make your point.

1. BFS isn't promoting anything. It is a documentary examining steroids' role in American culture.

2. At no point did I say that steroids aren't without their problems. I am merely pointing out their excessive demonization in contrast to their actual dangers.

The rest of your reply is meaningless blather; you've made assumptions of my opinions on topics about which I a) made no comment on, and b) are so inaccurate that they're not worth replying to.

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"

"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?"
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alienist
Skeptic Friend

USA
210 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2012 :  10:11:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send alienist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the bottom line with testosterone is that if a man has too little it can cause problems. This, of course, usually happens as a man gets older. Taking more testosterone than needed does not have any more benefit. There don't seem to be a lot of short term problems with excess testosterone (except acne, hair loss) but there may well be long term problems. Taking too much testosterone may also lead to more risky behavior.
I would recommend that anyone who is thinking of taking testosterone look up articles at the National Library of Medicine website or use google scholar. Also ask your doctor.
I definitely would not listen to anyone from Cenegenics unless they have done peer reviewed double blind research

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis
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IntegreaterOne
New Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2012 :  10:19:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send IntegreaterOne a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Here's a link to an alleged photo of this guy when he was 67 years old:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Most-Recommended-Photos/ss/1750/im:/081206/480/03f9c84673b3464cbf5428f3c5144e2d

Does anyone know anything about Cenegenics? Is this a load of shit?

EDIT:

Here's a link to the Cenegenics home page:

http://www.cenegenics.com/


EDIT 2:

Ok, here's a good article:

http://wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1540118

Youthfulness an American obsession - at what cost?
By MARTHA IRVINE and LINDSEY TANNER
Associated Press Writers

LAS VEGAS (AP) - It's one of those photos that make you do a double-take. Dr. Jeffry Life stands in jeans, his shirt off. His face is that of a distinguished-looking grandpa; his head is balding, and what hair there is is white. But his 69-year-old body looks like it belongs to a muscle-bound 30-year-old.

The photo regularly runs in ads for the Cenegenics Medical Institute, a Las Vegas-based clinic that specializes in "age management," a growing field in a society obsessed with staying young. Life, who swears that's his real last name, also keeps a framed copy of the photo on his office wall at Cenegenics.

"He's the man!" patient Ed Detwiler says teasingly, pointing to the photo of the doctor who, in many ways, has become his role model.

Detwiler, 47, has been Life's patient for more than three years. In that time, he has adopted the regimen that his doctor also follows _ drastically changing his exercise and eating habits and injecting himself each day with human growth hormone. He also receives weekly testosterone injections.

He does it because it makes him feel better, more energetic, clear-minded.

He does it because he wants to live a long, healthy life.

"If I were stooped over and bedridden, what kind of quality of life is that?" asks Detwiler, a real estate developer in suburban Las Vegas who says he's doing this, in part, for his wife, who is nine years younger. "If I can get out and be active and travel and see the world and be able to make a difference in other people's lives, then yes, I would want to have as long an existence as possible."

<snip>

Detwiler, Life's patient at Cenegenics, is not looking for the appearance of youth. He's looking to extend his youthfulness, and his life.

He knows about human growth hormone and its controversies in sports. But this, he and his doctor insist, is different. While it is illegal for these kinds of hormones to be dispensed for anti-aging purposes, he takes relatively low doses prescribed for "hormone deficiency." The idea is to bring his levels back up to those of a young man in his 20s.

"My friends say, 'Oh, Ed's on steroids,'" says Detwiler, who has watched as muscle has replaced fat on his belly and elsewhere. "No, I'm not. Look at me. Do I look like I'm on steroids?"

He holds out his arms to indicate that his body is fit-looking, but not monstrous. "I'm not. I'm on hormone therapy," he says of a regimen that costs him more than $1,000 a month.

Besides human growth hormone, testosterone, and an adrenal hormone known as DHEA, his diet now largely consists of things like hard-boiled eggs, fruits, nuts, Greek yogurt, salads and palm-sized pieces of fish, chicken or low-fat beef. He also exercises regularly, alternating between intense cardio workouts and weight-resistance training.

"I can't tell you in words how great I feel," says the man who used to crack open a Pepsi to get him through the day.


Any thoughts on this? The exercise and diet are no-brainers. Surely the horomone treatments are the key to the dramatic results, though.

So how about it? Some of you guys are getting on in years, would you do this if you had $1,200 a month extra to drop on it? What if you knew the hormones wouldn't cause cancer or some other disease?
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IntegreaterOne
New Member

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2012 :  10:39:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send IntegreaterOne a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Hi Guys,

Had to weigh in on this because I've been visiting a Cenegenics doc for 4 years and it's the best thing that has ever happened to me.

1. I'm almost 60. I don't get ANY shots or pay any big bills. I get testosterone cream in very small amounts (1 mg every second day) and I'm measured back up to normal. Health plan covers it. Lots of men and women are deficient - largely because of our environment and eating.

2. My HGH (human growth hormone) has NATURALLY risen as a result of a number of holistic interventions undertaken by my female cenegenics doc. Didn't need and couldn't afford expensive injections to get there. I am height and weight where I should be and fit. My blood sugar is down, by cardiovascular risk factors are dramatically improved, my mood, my eating habits are vastly improved. People think I look way younger than I am.

Yes, YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE COSTS, DANGERS AND QUESTIONS ABOUT FAST SOLUTION INTERVENTIONS LIKE HGH SO EARLY IN LIFE. BUT DON'T THROW OUT THE PROGRAM.

3. I can't speak for all their docs. But I can speak for one that's been working with me. This is not cookbook, shove them out the door with a drug medicine. It is east meets west and the best of what we should be doing.

We have to move MORE docs towards nutrition, stabilized hormones, vitamins, cardiovascular attention, fitness and medicine as appropriate.

I hope this helps for those who want to know the whole story. The ad is cheesy and it should be pulled. Building bigger weenies is not what it's about.


Originally posted by chaloobi[/i]

Here's a link to an alleged photo of this guy when he was 67 years old:

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Most-Recommended-Photos/ss/1750/im:/081206/480/03f9c84673b3464cbf5428f3c5144e2d

Does anyone know anything about Cenegenics? Is this a load of shit?

EDIT:

Here's a link to the Cenegenics home page:

http://www.cenegenics.com/


EDIT 2:

Ok, here's a good article:

http://wtop.com/?nid=106&sid=1540118

Youthfulness an American obsession - at what cost?
By MARTHA IRVINE and LINDSEY TANNER
Associated Press Writers

LAS VEGAS (AP) - It's one of those photos that make you do a double-take. Dr. Jeffry Life stands in jeans, his shirt off. His face is that of a distinguished-looking grandpa; his head is balding, and what hair there is is white. But his 69-year-old body looks like it belongs to a muscle-bound 30-year-old.

The photo regularly runs in ads for the Cenegenics Medical Institute, a Las Vegas-based clinic that specializes in "age management," a growing field in a society obsessed with staying young. Life, who swears that's his real last name, also keeps a framed copy of the photo on his office wall at Cenegenics.

"He's the man!" patient Ed Detwiler says teasingly, pointing to the photo of the doctor who, in many ways, has become his role model.

Detwiler, 47, has been Life's patient for more than three years. In that time, he has adopted the regimen that his doctor also follows _ drastically changing his exercise and eating habits and injecting himself each day with human growth hormone. He also receives weekly testosterone injections.

He does it because it makes him feel better, more energetic, clear-minded.

He does it because he wants to live a long, healthy life.

"If I were stooped over and bedridden, what kind of quality of life is that?" asks Detwiler, a real estate developer in suburban Las Vegas who says he's doing this, in part, for his wife, who is nine years younger. "If I can get out and be active and travel and see the world and be able to make a difference in other people's lives, then yes, I would want to have as long an existence as possible."

<snip>

Detwiler, Life's patient at Cenegenics, is not looking for the appearance of youth. He's looking to extend his youthfulness, and his life.

He knows about human growth hormone and its controversies in sports. But this, he and his doctor insist, is different. While it is illegal for these kinds of hormones to be dispensed for anti-aging purposes, he takes relatively low doses prescribed for "hormone deficiency." The idea is to bring his levels back up to those of a young man in his 20s.

"My friends say, 'Oh, Ed's on steroids,'" says Detwiler, who has watched as muscle has replaced fat on his belly and elsewhere. "No, I'm not. Look at me. Do I look like I'm on steroids?"

He holds out his arms to indicate that his body is fit-looking, but not monstrous. "I'm not. I'm on hormone therapy," he says of a regimen that costs him more than $1,000 a month.

Besides human growth hormone, testosterone, and an adrenal hormone known as DHEA, his diet now largely consists of things like hard-boiled eggs, fruits, nuts, Greek yogurt, salads and palm-sized pieces of fish, chicken or low-fat beef. He also exercises regularly, alternating between intense cardio workouts and weight-resistance training.

"I can't tell you in words how great I feel," says the man who used to crack open a Pepsi to get him through the day.


Any thoughts on this? The exercise and diet are no-brainers. Surely the horomone treatments are the key to the dramatic results, though.

So how about it? Some of you guys are getting on in years, would you do this if you had $1,200 a month extra to drop on it? What if you knew the hormones wouldn't cause cancer or some other disease?
[/quote]
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2012 :  13:35:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by IntegreaterOne

We have to move MORE docs towards nutrition, stabilized hormones, vitamins, cardiovascular attention, fitness and medicine as appropriate.
Every single time I've visited a general practitioner, he/she has told me to eat well and in moderate amounts, exercise more, get good sleep, avoid smoking, etc., and they've taken my pulse and blood pressure as a matter of course. So whenever I hear people say that more doctors need to do these sorts of things, I think, "how many more than 100%?"

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Doctor X
Voluntary Exile

151 Posts

Posted - 10/27/2012 :  14:35:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Doctor X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

So whenever I hear people say that more doctors need to do these sorts of things, I think, "how many more than 100%?"


Indeed.

I gather it is not sufficiently magical to hear it from "the man in the white coat." Granted, the whole "white coat" symbolism came from a drive in the 40s [He summoned that date from his fundament.--Ed.] to make physicians appear more like "scientists" than your friend and colleague. Not sure that helped. We ["We?"--Ed.] now have the problem that the physician represents the stereotype of the uncaring scientist. True or not, the physician is the one who tells you all the things few people want to hear: we are mortal, we are all going to die, we are too fat, we have to do this, not do that, and, no, that lesion is really not normal.

Instead, here is an appeal to NATURAL HEALING [All Rights Reserved.--Ed.]. As a pathologist quipped in exasperation, "so is shit!" Anyways, with NATURAL HEALING [Save 10% with internet coupon!--Ed.], YOU are in control . . . because, apparently, you are not in control under WESTERN [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] Medicine!

YOU can say "Uh-UH!" to the "no's" of that greedy-Big Pharma slave! YOU can live "forever," young, able to eat what you want, do what you want.

Who would not want that?

If only it proved true.

--J.D.

His secrets are not sold cheaply.
It is perilous to waste his time.
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