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 Atheists as allies?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2008 :  08:13:44  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hah! Tell that one to the insufferable skank, Liddy Dole.

Anyhow, here's an article on it. Actually, it's part 2, but the earlier one is linked.
How To Be An Ally with Atheists
This is a follow-up to yesterday's post on being an atheist in the queer community. But I think it will be of interest to anyone, individual or organization, who wants to be an ally with atheists and the atheist movement.

So what do atheists want from their allies?

And how can progressive non-atheist people and groups be good allies with the atheist movement?

Yesterday, I posted a piece about how difficult I was finding it to be an out atheist in the LGBT community. Since I don't like to gripe for the sake of griping without offering any solutions, today I'm offering my suggestions for what atheists want: my prescription for how progressive believers can, if they want, be supportive of atheists, and allies with the atheist movement.

A quick disclaimer first: While I suspect that a lot of atheists will more or less agree with much of this list, I really am speaking only for myself here. Atheists are notoriously independent, and they don't like having other people speak for them. (Any atheists reading this: If you have disagreements with this list or things you'd like to add, please speak up in the comments.)
Liddy would love this -- heretics and queers! Oh, the humanity!

As an aside, my elder daughter, when she heard about Dole's press release and saw the tv commercial, took white, liquid shoe polish and painted "DOLE IS A BIGOT!" on the tailgate of her truck. It makes a father proud....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2008 :  09:03:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Even the atheists who would like to see religion disappear, and who are actively working to make that happen, still passionately support religious freedom. We don't want to make religion disappear by law, or coercion, or even social disapproval. We want to make religion disappear by persuasion. We want to convince people, in an open marketplace of ideas, that religion is mistaken. Even the most strongly and rudely anti- religion atheists I know are passionate in their defense of religious freedom, and of people's right to believe whatever crazy bullshit they want as long as they don't inflict it on other people."

Dang! Busted, tagged and categorized.

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2008 :  09:40:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love Greta Christina's comments! This gal is brilliant. The new and stronger secular and atheist movement of today stands on the shoulders of those who have preceded it, and foremost among those others are the Women's Rights, Civil Rights and LBGT movements. Greta understands this, and explains in vivid practical terms how people need to work together in coalitions.

I liked this little funny bit: "Besides, we all know that Hitchens is an asshole. It's not news to us."

Oh, and Libby Dole. She counted upon North Carolinians' bigotry, but the folks down there proved to be smarter and more tolerant than she'd hoped. Good political riddance.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/28/2008 09:41:54
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River Otter
Skeptic Friend

USA
67 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2008 :  19:05:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send River Otter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hey Dad (Filthy), I read this yesterday too. I thought is was a great piece. I was happy to see it here. And I am glad to make you proud :)

I am not ashamed to confess that I am ignorant of what I do not know. -Cicero

Brother, You say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agree, as you can all read the book. -Sagoyewatha,(Red Jacket) - Chief and great orator of the six nations.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/28/2008 :  23:19:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, River Otter! Damn, I'd be proud of you if you were my daughter, too!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 12/30/2008 :  13:50:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome Otter!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  05:35:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Heyy Filthy's daughter! Welcome!

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  06:35:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In fact, Otter blew the gaff. When she told me she'd signed on to this ship of the damned, I thought: "This is gonna be fun!" I figured that as long as no one knew of our reationship, we could tag-team hell out of these fora -- at least until Dave W caught us at it, which, eventually, he would have.

My fault, really. I should have let her in on The Plan sooner.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  11:29:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

In fact, Otter blew the gaff. When she told me she'd signed on to this ship of the damned, I thought: "This is gonna be fun!" I figured that as long as no one knew of our reationship, we could tag-team hell out of these fora -- at least until Dave W caught us at it, which, eventually, he would have.

My fault, really. I should have let her in on The Plan sooner.




Now that the cats out of the bag, perhaps you could guys could make the most of it by having a public argument (hopefully personal) on this forum. (Family members usually know where the buttons are hidden and how to push them.)

Oh, and welcome to SFN, River Otter.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  13:44:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by filthy

In fact, Otter blew the gaff. When she told me she'd signed on to this ship of the damned, I thought: "This is gonna be fun!" I figured that as long as no one knew of our reationship, we could tag-team hell out of these fora -- at least until Dave W caught us at it, which, eventually, he would have.

My fault, really. I should have let her in on The Plan sooner.




Now that the cats out of the bag, perhaps you could guys could make the most of it by having a public argument (hopefully personal) on this forum. (Family members usually know where the buttons are hidden and how to push them.)

Oh, and welcome to SFN, River Otter.
Might that not count as a sort of living, double sock-puppetry? Not as puppety as The Tag-Team Plan, perhaps, but never the less........

But actually, no. I'm afraid of her, you see. She has this fierce dog with a face so pushed in that you can't tell one end from the other. Also, if I piss her off enough, she'll have me put in a geezer home, motorscooter and all. Then who would feed my rattlesnake?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2009 :  16:29:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Might that not count as a sort of living, double sock-puppetry? Not as puppety as The Tag-Team Plan, perhaps, but never the less........
I think it should be kosher to have sockpuppets if we actually breed them ourselves.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/05/2009 16:30:43
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