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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  08:27:12  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been following the Freshwater trial at the Panda's Thumb. It's been very interesting but pretty straightforward thus far. This morning, they got into the handouts this ridiculous, fundie imbecile gave to his unfortunate students. It makes the burning of a cross on the arms of those students with a Tesla coil pale in the comparison.

Never have I seen nor heard of such unmitigated codswallop passing itself off as an instruction tool in any public school, science class. Freshwater has never had a student; to him, they've all been victims. Read it and weep!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  10:04:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another problem arises - a [ lion ] creeps up and prepares to [ kill ] its spotted [ prey ]. The giraffe quickly raises its [ head ]. This causes a reduced [ blood ] flow - the giraffe passes out. The lion [ eats ] a hearty meal and the giraffe, were it alive, would realize that it had better evolve some mechanism to re-oxygenate its oxygen deprived [ brain ]. Remember that [ dead ] animals don't evolve anything.


You know, I can't think of any creationist who debated their case on this forum by arguing something so stupid. And that's saying something!

Just when you thought you had seen it all...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  10:19:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just posted the following at Panda's Thumb:
Is it just me, or does it look like the handout was pulled directly from this page, with some blanks added in. I'm guessing that all the parts about "the Creator" were erased from it, too.

If I'm correct in my guess, then I bet that I've found the Woodpecker, also. These are both from a book called The Evolution of a Creationist, by Dr. Jobe Martin.

No clue on the "Dragon" hand-out, though.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  11:34:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

I just posted the following at Panda's Thumb:
Is it just me, or does it look like the handout was pulled directly from this page, with some blanks added in. I'm guessing that all the parts about "the Creator" were erased from it, too.

If I'm correct in my guess, then I bet that I've found the Woodpecker, also. These are both from a book called The Evolution of a Creationist, by Dr. Jobe Martin.

No clue on the "Dragon" hand-out, though.

Good catch!

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  12:02:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
No clue on the "Dragon" hand-out, though.

That's got to be something he picked up from Hovind, who always pushed that "dragon stories are evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed" angle. Hovind has said:
There's actually overwhelming evidence that dinosaurs have always lived with humans. We simply called them dragons. Man killed most of them, and there may be a few still alive today.
He considers the Loch Ness monster a good example of the latter.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/14/2009 12:03:37
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  12:41:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by Dave W.
No clue on the "Dragon" hand-out, though.

That's got to be something he picked up from Hovind, who always pushed that "dragon stories are evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed" angle. Hovind has said:
There's actually overwhelming evidence that dinosaurs have always lived with humans. We simply called them dragons. Man killed most of them, and there may be a few still alive today.
He considers the Loch Ness monster a good example of the latter.


I've got Hovind's "good example," hangin'!



Anyone remember the great to-do Kent made over this? Freshwater must be a fan!

Dave, thanks for the info...




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  13:14:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
J. Biggs replied to me over there:
Dr. Jobe Martin's doctorate is in Dentistry. Which, means he is eminantly qualified to discuss evolution. I have actually read this book and can say without a doubt it is one of the biggest pieces of trash out there. There is even a chapter that discusses fraudulent missing links like Piltdown man, accusing scientists of perpetrating fraud in order to prove “their theory”. In the same chapter he talks about Creation “scientists” proving man and dinosaur coexisted by touting the Paluxy footprints which I believe had already been discredited before the book was published. Jobe Martin, D.D.S. also failed to disclose that it was the scientific community and not Creation “scientists” that exposed both Piltdown man and the Paluxy tracks as frauds.
And so I responded:
Yeah, the whole book seems to be online, but I didn't bother reading the whole thing.

I'm just interested in tracking back the source of the handouts. A search of allaboutscience.org for “woodpecker” turns up nothing, and “giraffe” turns up a video which makes the same claims as Martin's book, from a DVD called “Incredible Creatures that Defy Evolution I.” And it would seem that that's Martin doing all the talking in that video clip.

My point is that despite Adkins' day-9 testimony, I can't find any evidence of the handouts themselves on allaboutgod.com, allaboutscience.org or allaboutcreation.org. Perhaps they've been taken down since the Freshwater thing got stirred up.
In other words, the handouts were probably the work of Jobe Martin, DDS, and any online copies got flushed down the memory hole as soon as someone realized they were probably going to be national news.

By the way, allaboutcreation.org has six main pages on dragons. They claim that dragons are dinosaurs, and that dinosaurs and man lived together. Nothing we haven't heard from Hovind before, of course. But it's too much stuff to cram into a "bell ringer" handout for the kids. And the idea that Chinese or Balinese dragons look anything like dinosaurs is absurd. The idea that a 20,000-year-old cave drawing of a serpent is instead a drawing of a dinosaur is ludicrous. (Heck, I'm even having trouble finding online evidence that there exists a three-meter serpent among the paintings in La Baume.) Do these people think that cavemen were so stupid they couldn't tell the difference between a snake and a T. Rex?!

[Edited for a very poorly formed sentence.]

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  13:30:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil
Just when you thought you had seen it all...



Poe's law is, indeed, a law.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2009 :  14:08:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice work in finding those handout sources, Dave.

One thing that stands out vividly in my mind about the scattered sources that Freshwater used is their chaotic dissimilarity.

True, they all deny evolution, and insert "goddidit," but aside from that, the various sources provide contradictory "theories," and no coherent picture at all. Of course, many of the sources, like Hovid, are internally self-contradictory. When the only motivation of these people is apologetics, that's what one can expect. They are not shackled by the logic, scientific methods, or even honesty of lesser minds, and are thus free to narrate their own travelogues as they wander all over their mythical landscape.

The Creationist present wacky made-up-shit hypotheses that make the serious unresolved disputes within evolutionary biology look like settled dogma by comparison. I have to think that Freshwater had noticed that his sources are unreliable and contradictory. He's either a simple liar (pious fraud), or he's got cognitive dissonance working at full steam.

Really, there are two choices: Chaos, or science.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/14/2009 16:36:15
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