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 Christian man refuses to drive atheist bus
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  17:52:19  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm

That kind of advertising is asking for trouble


Edited by - On fire for Christ on 01/16/2009 17:54:32

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  18:12:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mr. Heather, the driver, said:
"I think it was the starkness of this advert which implied there was no God."
Of course, that "starkness" is belied by the very message he's protesting: "There's probably no God." That's probably too absolute for the Christian gentleman's sensitivities.

An atheist refusing to drive one of the many busses which, preceding the present atheist campaign, carried Christian messages, could probably expect to lose his job.

More power to Mr. Heather. Looks like his bosses are trying to let him drive more faithful busses.

Anyway, an atheist bus doesn't need a "driver."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/16/2009 20:36:07
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  20:33:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

That kind of advertising is asking for trouble
Indeed, look at what those horrible Methodists are saying:
...the Methodist Church said it would be a "good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life" and suggested it showed there was a "continued interest in God".
The bus company says the driver need not drive a bus with that ad so long as there are others available. Obviously, the next step will be dogs and cats sleeping together.

Totally asking for trouble. Yup. Look at the rioting and lawlessness that a similar ad campaign caused in Washington, D.C.

Oh, that's right, there was none.

And let's all just nevermind what prompted the original campaign:
This was in reaction to a widely run Christian campaign threatening unbelievers with hellfire.
Now that kind of advertising is asking for trouble. And it got it. Go figure.

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  22:13:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
are you being sarcastic?

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2009 :  23:14:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

are you being sarcastic?
Of course. Weren't you?

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 :  06:56:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An atheist refuses to drive a bus with some religious advert - he gets fired, goes to court, big mess. Worst case, the atheist is found on the street and beaten up (or worse).

A religionists refuses to drive a bust with some a-religious advert - people bend over backward to accommodate and apologize.

How's that persecution complex treating ya?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 :  16:53:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

An atheist refuses to drive a bus with some religious advert - he gets fired, goes to court, big mess. Worst case, the atheist is found on the street and beaten up (or worse).

A religionists refuses to drive a bust with some a-religious advert - people bend over backward to accommodate and apologize.

How's that persecution complex treating ya?


Originally posted by Halfmooner
An atheist refusing to drive one of the many busses which, preceding the present atheist campaign, carried Christian messages, could probably expect to lose his job.


I'm confused, did this ever actually happen? If not, then in my opinion this is almost as bad as a Christian claiming persecution over a cracker or praying in schools. There are plenty of things messed up concerning church and state and the rights of atheists, there is no need to make up hypothetical ones (even if it probably is what would happen). Doing so makes it sound like you are complaining over things that never happened.

Of course, if this did actually happen and I've somehow missed this, then the comments above are justified.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 01/17/2009 16:54:23
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 :  17:10:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, Ricky. As for me, I admit knowing of no case in which an atheist has been so incensed about a bus ad that he or she refused to drive the bus.

Typically, it's the religious who are so uptight, and atheists more open to free debate. But my point was that anyone should naturally want to bear in mind that taking such a stand as refusing to drive for religious reasons could cause the loss of a job.

The irony here is that Mr. Heather complains of the "starkness" of the atheist ad, then is handled with kid gloves after his little act of occupational disobedience. His employers are making every effort to give him a more pleasant bus in the future. How very stark for Mr. Heather.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/17/2009 17:11:02
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2009 :  17:50:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something like this? http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=159590

A quick google search brings up quite a few hits for atheists complaining and getting fired.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 01/17/2009 17:51:46
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/19/2009 :  18:36:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Over at PZ's place, he describes more of the fallout from the atheist bus campaign. This latest from a seriously stupid man with a raging case of fatwah envy.

Maybe that's the kind of "trouble" that OFFC was talking about: raving lunatic Christians having wet dreams about an anti-atheist Muslim holy war.

Comparatively, Islamists have been fonts of rationality and grace over the bus ads, simply by not making enough of a fuss to warrant column inches.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  11:34:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My question would be: Would a bus company be as lenient toward an atheist refusing to drive buses with Christian slogans on them.
I strongly suspect a double standard would be applied.

Not that I would expect an atheist to care enough: there are better ways to waste energy combatting religionists.

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  12:55:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

My question would be: Would a bus company be as lenient toward an atheist refusing to drive buses with Christian slogans on them.
I strongly suspect a double standard would be applied.

Not that I would expect an atheist to care enough: there are better ways to waste energy combatting religionists.

That's my take, too, largely just my opinion, basically. Western society has developed a habit of automatically providing a comfort zone for religionists, sometimes an absurdly huge one, but this tradition does not yet exist for the comfort of atheists.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2009 :  13:21:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Perhaps oddly, I really don't care. If the company has a religious stickered-up bus they can transfer hin too, fine. May he drive it in peace.

The point is that the point has already been made and Mr. Heather has nicely emphisized it. For this, we owe him some small thanks.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  07:07:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is very simple - a person may hold whatever beliefs they wish, and may practise their beliefs in the workplace, as long as it does not interfere with their ability to do their job. If he wishes to mutter grace before having his lunch, so what? I would support his right to do it. But refusing to do his job is grounds for immediate dismissal. Up here in Toronto we've had reported cases of muslim taxi drivers refusing to take dogs in their cabs even if their owner is blind and needs it, based on the belief that dogs are considered 'unclean' according to Islam. That sort of bullshit has no place in society. If they want their beliefs respected to that practise level then they should get back to Saudi Arabia or whatever third world shithole they came from.

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  07:35:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say that it's between him and his company. Not inconcievably, he might be a very good bus-driver otherwise and they'd hate to lose him.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  10:32:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat
But refusing to do his job is grounds for immediate dismissal.
In America, employers must make "reasonable" allowances to accommodate people's religious beliefs. In this case, because the guy was willing to drive any bus without the sign and there were several available, it was trivial to accommodate him (however silly we think his request to be). Therefore, they probably would have lost any lawsuits if they tried to fire him.

Up here in Toronto we've had reported cases of muslim taxi drivers refusing to take dogs in their cabs even if their owner is blind and needs it, based on the belief that dogs are considered 'unclean' according to Islam. That sort of bullshit has no place in society.
And that I agree with. Religion doesn't take priority over one's ability to do their job. It's the same with Christian pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control. At a certain point, accommodating wacky religious beliefs become an unreasonable burden for the employer. Refusing to serve certain customers should certainly qualify, but it's up to the courts and a judge's opinion on what counts as "unreasonable."


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

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