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hholdings
New Member
USA
23 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2009 : 18:10:25
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It appears that Rush Limbaugh is making the case for the new Christian Conservative Party(CCP). He makes the case that conservatism is different from republicanism. Rush is uniquely capable of leading such party with his current vast following, mostly in southern states. I believe most senators and representatives from the southern states would follow him, leaving the GOP. While there are many conservatives in other states (mountain west, midwest, far west, etc.), these conservatives along with moderates in the GOP would not likely leave the GOP for the CCP. This, of course, would result in the establishment of three parties. With a third party in play, some of the so called "blue dog democrats" would likely leave the Democratic Party and join the GOP.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 19:00:33 [Permalink]
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Got any references or links on that supposed plan of Limbaugh's? I see nothing in the news.
I see no advantage for either Conservatives or the GOP in such a third party formation. Only the opposite, including moderate Republicans switching to the Democratic Party. The GOP is already a far-right party, in effect a Christian Conservative party.
Breaking up the GOP just when it's the weakest it's been in fifty years or so makes no sense at all. Splitting the right wing of that away would mean two parties on the Right: The GOP as a center-right party, and a party of outright Freeper/WND-style Theonazis. Such a "Christian Conservative Party" would be Fascist in every way but in name.
Note that the Democrats began to cut into the GOP's "Solid South" in the last election, particularly in Virginia and North Carolina. The split would benefit the Democrats enormously by splitting the vote.
And there's no pay-off for conservative Blue Dogs to leave the ruling majority party to join an even-further-weakened GOP minority. They'd have nothing to offer the Blue Dogs but obscurity and impotence.
Not that a split won't happen, or that Limbaugh isn't just the clown to wreck the GOP and the conservative cause for decades to come. More power to him. I've predicted a split in the GOP for some time. But I expect a much sharper and bloodier fight within that party before there is such a split. Third parties don't have a successful track record in the US, and people know it. So it simply makes sense to fight over the carcass of the GOP first.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/03/2009 19:21:20 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 19:24:16 [Permalink]
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It seems surprising that the neocons would relinquish the name of Republicans and the considerable politic machinery behind the GOP.
Moreover, such a split within the GOP would first benefits the Democrats. Now, I don't think it would be such a disaster for the Right. The two parties might be able to coordinate and act as a single entity in most national elections.
In fact, this split might allow the Republicans to move back to the heart of their party, back to what it was even before the sixties, and move back toward the center. The CCP, on the other hand, would continue moving toward the Right and gather to the fundies that would feel abandoned by the GOP.
Such a dual entity may, in fact, be able to get its electoral cake and eat it too... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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hholdings
New Member
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 20:30:07 [Permalink]
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Simon:
"Moreover, such a split within the GOP would first benefits the Democrats."
Yes, that is true-the democrats would initially benefit. However, in the long run, it could result in three parties of equal strength. Besides, the CCP and GOP would undoubtedly work together until they have sufficient strength to go it alone. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 21:56:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by hholdings
Yes, that is true-the democrats would initially benefit. However, in the long run, it could result in three parties of equal strength.
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Splitting a minority party at it's weakest time could hardly result in two parties each equal to the majority party.
I think the NeoCons are determined to complete their death spiral. The only question is, will they take the GOP with them into obscurity? My own guess and hope is that there will first be a battle royale for the control of the GOP, with the NeoCons losing. Then the NeoCons would form a third party, soon effectively disappearing from the political landscape. The GOP could begin to center itself and begin to recover once it's rid of its fascist, theocratic element.
The more closely matched the GOP factions are, longer, more bitter, and ultimately more destructive to the party and the Right in general the battle will be.| Besides, the CCP and GOP would undoubtedly work together until they have sufficient strength to go it alone. |
Big doubt. There's no tradition of inter-party coalitions in the US. The bitterness between the GOP and the any new far-right party is going to be extreme. And consider too that the new party, freed from practical political considerations to fully embrace its loathsome ideology, would likely have an openly reactionary platform, custom designed to be anathema to the GOP.
Think of Limbaugh, unchained.
Here's some of the kinds of positions we might expect from such a Limbaugh party: Disenfranchisement of non-Judeo-Christians (or maybe the Jews will be left out), a push for Constitutional amendments to ban abortion, gay marriage, and the teaching of evolution in public schools. They may very well also organize their own Brownshirt-style good squads. Even taking a few such positions would make them pariahs to all but the most fanatic fundies.
I think one of the following will happen: 1) The moderates and traditional "PaleoCon" conservatives will remove the NeoCons from their control the Party, and this will trigger the formation of a weak and doomed far-right party. Meanwhile the GOP will slowly recover. 2) The NeoCons will win the struggle to continue their control of the GOP, thus dooming the party. This will trigger the moderates and PaleoCons to leave and form a center/right party which will ultimately survive, and look much like the GOP of the pre-Reagan era. Think of it as a party of Eisenhower, Nixon and Goldwater.
Either way, the Demos are set to rule the roost without too much external opposition for years to come. In the immediate future, the main policy debates will be between Democratic factions, and these will be intense.
However the battle for the GOP goes, the era of NeoCon power is effectively past, and a major party of the center-right will gradually rebuild to counter the Democrats.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 22:17:04 [Permalink]
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| If the Republicans got split in half, perhaps some Democratic voters would migrate left when they see that they don't have to vote Dem. to keep Rep. from power. This could strenthen the Socialists and Greens. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend
Sweden
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2009 : 23:54:29 [Permalink]
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| Such a split might make the GOP a bit more sane and therefore more moderate than now, which is both good and bad. The extremists could leave the GOP and join the CCP, but at the same time it's possible that the more conservative Democrats feel they could return to the GOP. Or it could be like Dr. Mabuse suggests, that some Democrats leave for parties on the left. Maybe it could bring more diversity to the political landscape, and leave more options for the voters. |
"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 08:23:10 [Permalink]
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Good point, Mab, that would certainly happen to an extent.
As for the rivalry between the new GOP and the CCP (there need another C, somewhere), I'd expect it to be short lived faced with the reality. If it's cooperate or perish, they will learn to cooperate pretty damn quick.
I'd never expect the CCP to win a major election all on its own, though. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 11:05:53 [Permalink]
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When I search Google for "'Christian Conservative Party' 'Rush Limbaugh'," I get this SFN thread as the first hit. So I ask again, where does the information come from that Limbaugh specifically is calling for a new Christian Conservative Party?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 12:18:56 [Permalink]
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It is probably not in the plans anywhere.
But, maybe it should be... and maybe it will become unavoidable (in 2012, maybe, depending how much credibility Obama will have lost by then). |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 14:04:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by HalfMooner
When I search Google for "'Christian Conservative Party' 'Rush Limbaugh'," I get this SFN thread as the first hit. |
Even leaving Rush out of it results in this thread being the #1 result.
DC's Political Report puts the CCP in their list of "Inactive" political parties.
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Hot damn! Then if there ever is a call to (re)create that party, SFN is all set to get a ton of traffic!
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 15:02:41 [Permalink]
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| Didn't Rush already lead the Republican Party? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 15:05:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Didn't Rush already lead the Republican Party?
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Yes, if by "lead" you mean, "try to shove it into an abyss."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 15:40:43 [Permalink]
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We should do it,
My plan:
1) Recreate the Conservative Christian party ourselves.
2) ???
3) Profit |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2009 : 16:00:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Yes, if by "lead" you mean, "try to shove it into an abyss." |
I don't know whether that is really what's going on. I have the idea that Limbaugh, Palin and "Joe the Plumber" form the abyss and the Republican head honchos are eagerly pushing the party in it.
Fixed quotation - Ricky |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - Ricky on 03/04/2009 16:42:30 |
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Rush Limbaugh to lead Christian Conservative Party
