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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  20:08:20  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUBIJCXz9M8

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  20:28:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a shit-load of rightist propaganda that was.




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  20:41:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Rob. Have you completely forgotten about the last eight years? Why don't we list the rights we had eight years ago and see who really took our rights away. Hey hey hey...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  22:15:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a bunch of retarded bullshit... The comments about how the constitution is being ripped apart is especially cretinous...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend

USA
354 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  23:07:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Zebra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Couldn't even stay on topic - there was stuff about the bailout & stimulus $$, but then the refrain about taking rights away kept zeroing in on, hmmm which article in the Bill of Rights would that be? Oh yeah, the SECOND. (Which opens with a clause clearly providing limited context for the right discussed).

I'll see your right wing parody song, and raise you the Military Commission Act of 2006. Now, there's suspension of rights, done by an administration with no understanding of the constitution & their duty toward it.

I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney

*some restrictions may apply
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  23:47:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're right Kil, Robb must have forgotten the last 8 years. Could be amnesia. Selective or any variety you care to pick. Robb gets my ironic moment of the month award. Three cheers for Robb!!

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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@tomic
Administrator

USA
4607 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2009 :  23:55:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit @tomic's Homepage Send @tomic a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And what's really funny is that Obama isn't even all that liberal and yet look at the frenzy conservative are being whipped into. It's as if Americans elected Fidel Castro President! After watching the zany antics of the Bush administration the last few years and knowing just how popular Obama it's interesting to see the true ideologues push themselves further into the margins. Comedians don't even need one-liners any more. They just need to say two words to elicit laughter: Glenn Beck.

Robb, it's going to be a long eight years. Hang in there. Maybe things will look brighter for you under President Biden.

So, yeah you're right Robb. Depending on how you see it, it is funny.

@

Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!

Sportsbettingacumen.com: The science of sports betting
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  07:22:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Zebra

Couldn't even stay on topic - there was stuff about the bailout & stimulus $$, but then the refrain about taking rights away kept zeroing in on, hmmm which article in the Bill of Rights would that be? Oh yeah, the SECOND. (Which opens with a clause clearly providing limited context for the right discussed).

I'll see your right wing parody song, and raise you the Military Commission Act of 2006. Now, there's suspension of rights, done by an administration with no understanding of the constitution & their duty toward it.


To be perfectly objective and avoiding being blinded by my own (proudly admitted) liberal bias; is Keith Olbermann that credible a source?

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  07:44:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Originally posted by Zebra

Couldn't even stay on topic - there was stuff about the bailout & stimulus $$, but then the refrain about taking rights away kept zeroing in on, hmmm which article in the Bill of Rights would that be? Oh yeah, the SECOND. (Which opens with a clause clearly providing limited context for the right discussed).

I'll see your right wing parody song, and raise you the Military Commission Act of 2006. Now, there's suspension of rights, done by an administration with no understanding of the constitution & their duty toward it.


To be perfectly objective and avoiding being blinded by my own (proudly admitted) liberal bias; is Keith Olbermann that credible a source?

A fair question. Unlike the bellowing of commentators who work for Fox along with people like Coulter and Rush, I have never seen or heard of Oldermann being called out on a lie. Yes, the liberal bias is there. He spends much of his time listing the lies told by Rush and Fox contaminators. And to date, the objections I have heard coming from the other direction have skirted around the actual issues Oldermann has brought up and gone straight for an attack on Oldermann himself. Of course, Oldermann doesn't fair as well on internet blogs coming from the right. But that shouldn't be a surprise.

I'm not saying that Oldermann is not guilty of the ad hom. But his facts seem to be better supported, or, it seems to me, the other side would go after those too.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  11:34:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand and, myself, I always find the left to be more honest and better informed than people on the right, less prone to resort to the dreade ad hominen or poisoning of the well.
Part of me sees it as the left being smarter and, ultimately, right about the issues.
Part of me suspect that it is just my own bias talking...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  12:30:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simon:
Part of me suspect that it is just my own bias talking...

A good thing to acknowledge and be aware of. Critical thinking is a bitch in the area of politics. Political Science is almost an oxymoron.

One thing I am almost sure of after watching and being engaged in political discourse for over 40 years now. The right brings bigger and more finely honed lies to the table than the left does. I do believe that is because they can't win unless they can convince people who will not be better off under Republican rule, to vote for them. I'm speaking of blue collar Republicans and what has now become the Religious Right. While it's true that a Republican platform will not support choice, for example, I believe their original motivation for that had everything to do with politics and not with any morality derived from the bible.

Unfortunately, with regard to the RR and the old style conservatives who were about personal freedom, that decision to appeal to the religious minded has backfired on conservatives because the RR has practically taken over the party, with the result being that the personal freedoms that Robb thinks the left wants to take away, he would take away gladly, as long as they line up with the agenda he approves of. I don't see that kind of hypocrisy coming out of the left.

But hey, all politicians are liars, by design or necessity. Our job is to figure out who will inflect the most damage, who might actually improve things, and go from there.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  13:10:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know, the song wasn't that bad. The vocals were fairly accurate in my opinion. The message wasn't clear except for perhaps "We are against everything the democrats do!". But I don't think that was their intended message.

But funny? Huh? ... How? I mean, the song wasn't meant to be funny. That's a very peculiar sense of humor you have Robb.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 04/04/2009 13:11:24
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  13:31:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

I don't know, the song wasn't that bad. The vocals were fairly accurate in my opinion. The message wasn't clear except for perhaps "We are against everything the democrats do!". But I don't think that was their intended message.

You're wrong about that. But being that you are young and lacking in historical perspective, like the reference to Ronald Reagan, and the second amendment, and many other things, I'll give you a pass for being completely clueless. I won't fire you over it however.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend

USA
354 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  14:14:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Zebra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by Simon

Originally posted by Zebra

Couldn't even stay on topic - there was stuff about the bailout & stimulus $$, but then the refrain about taking rights away kept zeroing in on, hmmm which article in the Bill of Rights would that be? Oh yeah, the SECOND. (Which opens with a clause clearly providing limited context for the right discussed).

I'll see your right wing parody song, and raise you the Military Commission Act of 2006. Now, there's suspension of rights, done by an administration with no understanding of the constitution & their duty toward it.


To be perfectly objective and avoiding being blinded by my own (proudly admitted) liberal bias; is Keith Olbermann that credible a source?

A fair question. Unlike the bellowing of commentators who work for Fox along with people like Coulter and Rush, I have never seen or heard of Oldermann being called out on a lie. Yes, the liberal bias is there. He spends much of his time listing the lies told by Rush and Fox contaminators. And to date, the objections I have heard coming from the other direction have skirted around the actual issues Oldermann has brought up and gone straight for an attack on Oldermann himself. Of course, Oldermann doesn't fair as well on internet blogs coming from the right. But that shouldn't be a surprise.

I'm not saying that Oldermann is not guilty of the ad hom. But his facts seem to be better supported, or, it seems to me, the other side would go after those too.

Simon, you are absolutely right. But as Kil says, Olbermann hasn't been seriously accused of factual errors (though he has exaggerated on a point or two, and clearly has a viewpoint), and on this topic I found it hard to find an unbiased yet informative link. Also, back in 2006 I found his segment "Murder of Habeas corpus" to be very visually illustrative. [At this point I can't find that clip at msnbc, & it's been removed from Youtube (it's different from "Death of habeas corpus")]. In "Murder", he took a poster of the Bill of Rights and crossed out, on camera & with explanation, the amendments which could be considered void with habeas corpus suspended. A stunt, sure, but it really brought the potential legal/consitutional ramifications of the MCA home for me.

The Wikpedia page on the MCA is very dry & full of legalese, and IMO doesn't convey any sense of outrage to us non-lawyers which the MCA deserves/deserved - but I also wasn't up for rewriting it before linking to it.

I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney

*some restrictions may apply
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  14:25:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil said:
While it's true that a Republican platform will not support choice, for example, I believe their original motivation for that had everything to do with politics and not with any morality derived from the bible.

The president of the Southern Baptist Convention at the time of Roe v Wade was happy with the ruling. We had a thread around here someplace with an article that discussed this and the actual motivation for taking up abortion as a political stick.

As I recall, they were pissed off at being forced to let black children into their little private schools. But they couldn't jump up and down and raise hell over race, so they found a stalking horse. When it became unacceptable to be openly racist they needed a new threat to wave in front of the gullible masses and Robbs of the US.

Honestly, I think its why some of these alleged conservatives are so hysterical now, because a black man is the president.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2009 :  14:30:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

You're wrong about that. But being that you are young and lacking in historical perspective, like the reference to Ronald Reagan, and the second amendment, and many other things, I'll give you a pass for being completely clueless. I won't fire you over it however.



Huh? The song is saying they want Regan back and to keep the second amendment.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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