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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  13:53:44  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone know much about detoxification diets and supplements? My wife's personal physician is recommending she do a ten day liver detoxification diet. My quack meter started beeping so I thought I should put it to the forum. Thoughts? Links? Anyone?

-Chaloobi

Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  14:32:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep... It's bull.


Detoxification do exist but it's limited to very precise case of poisoning/addiction.

The sCAM version of it is just a poor diet, often very unbalanced and deficient in many ways.
There was a presentation on this subject at the Atlanta Skepticamp by a guy named Scott Little. I could probably email you my notes from the speech or try to put you guys in direct contact (probably through Facebook. Are you facing the book?).

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  16:26:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Yep... It's bull.


Detoxification do exist but it's limited to very precise case of poisoning/addiction.

The sCAM version of it is just a poor diet, often very unbalanced and deficient in many ways.
There was a presentation on this subject at the Atlanta Skepticamp by a guy named Scott Little. I could probably email you my notes from the speech or try to put you guys in direct contact (probably through Facebook. Are you facing the book?).
I'm on face book but there's like 500 scott littles... do you have an email or some other way to zero in?

-Chaloobi

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  16:29:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by Simon

Yep... It's bull.


Detoxification do exist but it's limited to very precise case of poisoning/addiction.

The sCAM version of it is just a poor diet, often very unbalanced and deficient in many ways.
There was a presentation on this subject at the Atlanta Skepticamp by a guy named Scott Little. I could probably email you my notes from the speech or try to put you guys in direct contact (probably through Facebook. Are you facing the book?).
I'm on face book but there's like 500 scott littles... do you have an email or some other way to zero in?
Of course, if you're on facebook, you should join SFN there. I might also let you be my friend if you tell my who you are...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  16:37:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Anyone know much about detoxification diets and supplements? My wife's personal physician is recommending she do a ten day liver detoxification diet. My quack meter started beeping so I thought I should put it to the forum. Thoughts? Links? Anyone?
By the way, is her doctor a medical doctor? An MD? Been her doctor long? Because I can't find any reference to it that isn't under alternative medicine or sites that are neutral or critical of it. One thing is I haven't seen, and that's a site I trust recommending it.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  17:25:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Part of the liver's many jobs is to eliminate toxic chemicals from the body. It doesn't generally need help unless it's failing, and I think your wife would know already if that were happening.

On the plus side, it's a diet, and not $1,000 worth of liver-detox pills or what-have-you.

No matter which way your wife chooses to go, I think a new doctor would be in order.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  17:55:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by Simon

Yep... It's bull.


Detoxification do exist but it's limited to very precise case of poisoning/addiction.

The sCAM version of it is just a poor diet, often very unbalanced and deficient in many ways.
There was a presentation on this subject at the Atlanta Skepticamp by a guy named Scott Little. I could probably email you my notes from the speech or try to put you guys in direct contact (probably through Facebook. Are you facing the book?).
I'm on face book but there's like 500 scott littles... do you have an email or some other way to zero in?



Maybe he is the littlest of them all?

Alternatively, I'll PM you my real name and you can add me in your Face book list of friend. From there, I can put you in contact with this good fellow.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  20:37:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by chaloobi

Anyone know much about detoxification diets and supplements? My wife's personal physician is recommending she do a ten day liver detoxification diet. My quack meter started beeping so I thought I should put it to the forum. Thoughts? Links? Anyone?
By the way, is her doctor a medical doctor? An MD? Been her doctor long? Because I can't find any reference to it that isn't under alternative medicine or sites that are neutral or critical of it. One thing is I haven't seen, and that's a site I trust recommending it.

Yes, she's an MD and she's not been my wife's doctor long. She 'teaches' a class on detoxification on her off time, charges like it's an office visit and the class materials and all the supplements that go with it all come from the same company. Those cost extra but she 'prescribes' the supplements, even though they arn't drugs, so insurance pays for them. Metagenics is the company, I haven't looked them up yet...

In any case, I completely agree about a new doctor. This woman is either a very mentally lazy doctor or she's selling snake oil on the side. Either way, she's a bad doctor.

-Chaloobi

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  20:44:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Yes, she's an MD and she's not been my wife's doctor long. She 'teaches' a class on detoxification on her off time, charges like it's an office visit and the class materials and all the supplements that go with it all come from the same company. Those cost extra but she 'prescribes' the supplements, even though they arn't drugs, so insurance pays for them.
The whole setup sounds like insurance fraud. It shouldn't be too difficult to find out what your state medical licensing board thinks about it. In other words: report her. She's making insurance more expensive for everyone.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2009 :  21:42:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by chaloobi

Anyone know much about detoxification diets and supplements? My wife's personal physician is recommending she do a ten day liver detoxification diet. My quack meter started beeping so I thought I should put it to the forum. Thoughts? Links? Anyone?
By the way, is her doctor a medical doctor? An MD? Been her doctor long? Because I can't find any reference to it that isn't under alternative medicine or sites that are neutral or critical of it. One thing is I haven't seen, and that's a site I trust recommending it.

Yes, she's an MD and she's not been my wife's doctor long. She 'teaches' a class on detoxification on her off time, charges like it's an office visit and the class materials and all the supplements that go with it all come from the same company. Those cost extra but she 'prescribes' the supplements, even though they arn't drugs, so insurance pays for them. Metagenics is the company, I haven't looked them up yet...

In any case, I completely agree about a new doctor. This woman is either a very mentally lazy doctor or she's selling snake oil on the side. Either way, she's a bad doctor.


And most insurances won't pay for it. If it isn't a recognized drug, prescription plans won't pay for them. What is the name of this quack?

This quack is committing insurance fraud on a grand scale. The classes cannot be coded as an office visit. Doesn't fit the criteria.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2009 :  00:11:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This doctor is practicing quackery. Please, talk with your wife, chaloobi, and try to convince her to change physicians! Also, you should probably complain to your local medical association, and to your insurance company as well.

Metagenics seems to be the worst kind of woo/quack scam operation. Here's a 2003 warning letter from the FDA to Metagenics, for starters.

The FTC also has taken Metagenics to court in 1996.

And a 1997 settlement with FTC, for deceptive advertising of a quack "Bone Builder" supplement.

Like so many other companies that prey upon the sick with quack nostrums, Metagenics skirts most FDA regulation by claiming they are offering food supplements rather than drugs. They call these "nutriceuticals." That term is clearly meant to imply to potential users that these things are for use like drugs, without saying so directly.

It appears that these companies primarily have to worry only about the FTC, which can get them for false advertising only.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/10/2009 01:48:45
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2009 :  07:38:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good work, Mooner.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2009 :  07:48:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
http://www.quackwatch.com/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=metagenics

Is this a naturopathic doctor?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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TheTruth11
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2009 :  13:27:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send TheTruth11 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You folks have been badly deceived your entire lives.

Anyone who trusts an MD as their primary care physician this day in age is just another lemming off of a cliff. "Traditional Medicine" is a science that treats symptoms - not actual problems. Where has this gotten us? Obese and over-medicated; always looking for the easy, simple way to "feel good."

I don't blame the doctors themselves - they are intelligent people who are just practicing what they have been taught for generations - that the way to make people feel better is to treat their symptoms by any mean necessary, often times ignoring the actual root cause at hand! Doctors and hospitals are constantly performing unnecessary surgeries and over-prescribing the unsuspecting public. What has been the result? Rampant obesity and laziness? Increased adolescent and adult suicides? Toddlers addicted to narcotics that THEIR DOCTORS GAVE THEM!!

Ask any of the normal people out there who had to see to believe. Ask the mother who couldn't get her child well, no matter what the physician tried, but a few weeks of cervical adjustments and her baby sleeps through the night, is ear-infection free, and at last is a healthy baby.

Ask the woman who was experiencing abdominal pain, resulting in the hysterectomy recommended by her physician, only to have the pain return. Her chiropractor found that a nerve impingement was causing her ileocecal valve to spasm. A few simple adjustments and she was pain free - except the residual pain from a violent surgery.

Ask any of the athletes who have faced career-ending back surgery fur herniation, fusing vertebrae together, only to later discover that some mild traction treatments and laser therapy could have allowed their bodies to heal themselves, and continue playing the sports that they loved for additional years.

Ask the "undiagnosable" auto-immune cases. Ask the parents whose autistic kids gained unprecedented levels of function. Ask about the every-day guy who was cured of depression without medication.

The list goes on and on...get on that list and get to a new level of health - or you are living in the PAST.

Who causes this new, cutting-edge healing? The kind that treats causes instead of treating symptoms? The kinds that allows the body to do the healing? The "quack" chiropractors and naturalists that this board has been ridiculing. Many (if not most) of these people have qualified medical educations that are widely recognized globally. More importantly, they are the only medical professionals out there who are thinking outside of the proverbial box. Where traditional medicine "covers it up" with pills or "cuts it off" with surgeries, these people are causing genuine health and wellness. Those are the people I want looking out for my well-being, and the well-being of my children. If they recommend a detox program, supported by vitamins and medical food, that will help to break my addiction to simple sugar and caffeine in order to better better my ability to handle illness, I am inclined to follow it.

I've been doing a detox once per year for five years now - long before it became a trendy thing to do. My results are undeniable. It is easier to wake up in the morning, I don't crave sweets, I don't get caffeine headaches, I crave exercise when I am stressed instead of alcohol, I never EVER have blemished skin, I sleep more soundly and easily...

Today's surgical and pharmaceutical medicine will someday go the way of bleeding people with leeches, amputating for infections, and sedating with moonshine. It is time to embrace the change instead of fearing it and ridiculing others for it.

I'm here to tell you what you don't want to hear - and what your physician doesn't want to admit - health and wellness takes time and effort. It is time to get what you give.

~TheTruth
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2009 :  13:41:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to SFN, TheTruth11.

Most of us here are pretty impressed with the vastly extended lifes modern people can now live, due to medical science. My own life has been saved several times by medical professionals, never by chiropractors or other quacks.

Your lengthy but ultimately empty hand-waving and raving against modernity and scientific medicine contains no evidence at all for your position. But that comes as no surprise. We're accustomed to such faulty rhetoric against science and reason, as that's all that you woo-woos have.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/30/2009 13:58:22
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 04/30/2009 :  13:52:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yup, the plural of "anecdote" is still not "data."

Geez, I don't crave sweets, nor do I get caffeine headaches. Of course, I don't eat many sweets or consume caffeine (at all), so why would I?

But if anecdotes are data, my story is as good as anyone else's.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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